This week we talk with super mom and super pro Nicole Hoss about how to create a Cash Flow Machine. What does that even mean? Listen to find out!

About Indestructible Wealth: I’m Jack Gibson. I’m your wealth strategist and I’m here to help you make some money. The Indestructible Wealth Podcast is for young entrepreneurs who want to make, keep and grow wealth to enjoy now, and for years to come.

Episode #11 – Building a Cash Flow Machine with SuperMom Nicole Hoss

Welcome to the Indestructible Wealth Podcast. This is the place where we help young entrepreneurs to make, keep, and grow wealth that you can enjoy now, and for years to come.  I’m your host Jack Gibson, a serial entrepreneur, founder of multiple seven and eight figure businesses, and wealth building strategist.  Each week I’m going to share my tips, resources and secrets, to help you create a plan and build the life you’ve dreamed of.

Jack: All right welcome Nicole to indestructible wealth. Thanks so much for joining the show today.

Nicole: Hi, thank you, Jack. I appreciate being here. 

Jack: Yes. We’re excited to dive in. We interviewed you  back one of our very first episodes on the High Return Real Estate Show and that got the most downloads of any of our shows for quite a while.  They were interested in learning about how this Supermom created this Portfolio of properties and passive income.  So we’re going to talk about that but we’re also going to definitely dive into Cash Flow Plus but before we do that why don’t you tell us a little bit about you, and what’s your background? How did you get involved in real estate investing? And then we’ll dive into other topics from there. 

Nicole: Alright Perfect. So my background my college degree is in secondary education. So I was a high school teacher and moved around a few times with my husband and then switched careers to something else and then I had twins. 

Nicole:  And it was at that point that I, we decided as a family that I would stay home and then we moved a couple more times and then I had another kid and oh my goodness. I do not recommend having three kids in two and a half years but anyway it is what it is.

Jack: Right!

Nicole: And so I stayed home and so we were living in Illinois in central Illinois. And we’re getting to the point where it was looking like all kids were going to be in school at the same time which meant I was going to have a lot of extra time to start utilizing my brain again.

Jack: True.

Nicole:  Really. Because I was all in mom brain for so many years, 5 years, 6 years something like that. And also with my husband’s job it was stable. But not always.   I mean, you’re working for somebody else.   He works for a large company and it seems stable until it’s not.

Jack: You’re right.

Nicole: You can just never, you never know.  You never know if you’re going to be in the wrong position at the wrong time when the company decides to reorganize.  So living where we were, seeing that he had a stable job but it could go away at any time we needed something that was going to create an additional stream of income.  And so like I said, we were living in Illinois and so we started looking at turnkey operations because I’m not a contractor, but I wanted to learn stuff and so we looked at turnkey  in Indianapolis. So Indianapolis was only two and a half hours from us. 

Jack: Sure.

Nicole: And so we started purchasing turnkey properties in Indianapolis.

Jack: And so what’s your portfolio look like to this point? How many properties do you have now?

Nicole: Right now I have 2 duplexes and four 4 single-families. I have also owned a quad so I have purchased properties &  I’ve sold properties. Oh gosh. I think I even owned bought and sold a duplex in there too.  It’s been a lot of different things over the last five years, but currently I have 2 duplexes, 4 single families and I should be closing on another single in the next few weeks. 

Jack: Awesome. So what has that extra passive cash flow income done for you and your family?

Nicole: Well it’s done a lot actually. It’s knowing that we have this extra stream of income coming in to take that extra trip. Oh, gosh, I guess inJanuary with COVID being right now it’s 2021 I don’t know if you have dates on it, but in January there was an option that for the school we could take our kids online. Plus my husband’s been working from home for the last 13 months. I’ve always been online so we actually packed up and found a condo out in Colorado, little 2 bed 2 bath. Kids did school online, we both worked online and spent our extra income stream. So we probably could not have done that. Had it not been for this extra stream of income

Jack: Wow!

Nicole:  Just something fun to do with kids and take advantage of the opportunities. 

Jack: Yes. I saw your pictures and I saw your videos and I was super jealous. That was totally supposed to be us and you’re out there. I’m sitting here in Michigan with no mountains around me. 

Nicole: Yeah it was a once in a lifetime thing that I hope that the kids take with them. 

Jack: Yes. So being an investor and already building a portfolio, what are your goals? Like, where are you, where are you trying to go from here? What’s the next level for you? 

Nicole: The next level is replacing my husband’s income. Completely replacing it with passive income. That is definitely the next level.  We currently live in Iowa and the taxes here are really high you wouldn’t think that.

Jack: You wouldn’t think that at all being an Iowa, I would think Iowa has the lowest taxes in the country.

Nicole: Right? Exactly. I mean, because what does it really have to offer? I guess for the most part, other than, I mean, it is pretty.  But Oh, my goodness. It’s mid-April right now it’s snowed twice this week. 

Nicole: So I don’t know what I’m paying for to live here other than my husband’s job happens to be here right now. So it would be nice to replace his income and move someplace on our terms mainly that’s it. It’s fine to raise a family here.

Jack: You’re financially free when that happens, right? Like the definition of financial freedom.

Nicole: Yes.

Jack: Is when you have enough passive income from your assets coming into completely replace your normal, ordinary income and so then when you do that you’re free to do what you want, where you want to do it with who you want to do it with.

Nicole: Yeah.

Jack:  It doesn’t mean you stop working because then you get bored. Right?

Nicole: Right.

Jack:  But it means that you have complete and total options and freedom. Okay. So then you’re the head of investor relations at High Return Real Estate, you’re the Investor Concierge. I don’t know how many other titles that you have. I should know, but for a long time your main focus has been onboarding customers and helping them find turnkey properties that we’ve offered.  And now it’s, you still do that, right. But it’s shifted quite a bit in a great way.  So tell us about that and how it’s shifted into where we’re at today and promoting and talking about cash flow plus.

Nicole: Yeah, so the turnkey market, not just in Indianapolis, but really across the country really shifted about a year ago. Things changed 1st when we had investors not buying because they didn’t know if they were going to have a job. So then we had an influx of properties that we had or inventory that we had already had and then we sold those off, but then purchasing more properties became very very difficult. So High Return Real Estate really was struggling, picking up properties mainly because they were so overpriced and the rents did not catch up to where they were at that time,  it didn’t make sense for us as a company to purchase them to sell to an investor knowing that the cash flow wouldn’t be correct and High Return Real Estate as a whole has always been customer focused and if a deal doesn’t make sense, we’re not going to buy it just to buy it. And so then we were like, okay well now we’re not making money because we can’t get properties, we can’t sell to investors and once things started to or I should say once investors started to get more comfortable with the climate of their job and knowing that, Hey you know what it’s been 6, 8 months I’m probably still going to have a job. They started coming out of the woodwork again and they had money because they hadn’t gone anywhere for months. So they had extra extra funds to spend so they started showing back up, but prices were still high in Indianapolis and it still didn’t make sense to purchase property. So we started, we had been working with this company called BPSG, Shecky actually had been working with it. Shecky is the other owner other than Jack of a High Return Real Estate. And other than yourself, I guess I should say I’m so used to talking to him.

Jack: You can talk to me in the 3rd person.

Nicole: I’m so used to talking to investors that because they ask this question all the time. That we were looking for another stream of income for our investors and so Shecky was working with this other company BPSG to who had created this program and we’re looking for additional vendors to offer the products to their customers and to clients, and also get to the point where we would be able to be one of the companies to provide properties to the investors that are going through Cash Flow Plus. 

Jack: Okay.

Nicole: It morphed into another stream of income especially because, like I said the properties and investment properties were not showing themselves as being good investments.  

Jack: Yeah. it’s crazy to think back a year ago, would  you have ever thought that nobody’s buying, nobody’s buying, I thought the prices were going to plummet and the prices held firm and then they just started going up and parabolic and it just you’re right I mean, we just couldn’t find deals that just made sense.  What people were asking for turds was what we were selling properties turnkey for like done completed and we’re like these rents, they haven’t gone up enough to make sense from a return on investment standpoint. So it’s been, just been completely and totally crazy and unpredictable. So you got to pivot, right?

Nicole: Right. 

Jack: And investors need to start pivoting too. 

Nicole: Very much so.

Jack: That’s what we really, I think we really want to help everybody understand on this show. Is that when the market conditions change, the way that you used to do things could maybe no longer apply. 

Nicole: Right.

Nicole: And don’t buy something just to buy something.

Jack: Right.

Nicole: It’s a mind shift, don’t step into a situation going, okay, I’m here to buy properties. Well if it doesn’t make sense, don’t do it, find another way to invest that makes sense for your financial situation. 

Jack: Yeah, That’s really good. Okay. So let’s talk about this program called Cash Flow Plus. What is it like? What is it offering to the investor?  What’s the benefit because most people when they come to us they’re like, I want to buy properties in Indianapolis.  I want to buy turnkey properties and then making this shift to, oh, okay. Like there’s a much bigger holistic picture that I’m not considering that, maybe I should be.  So your job is going to try to convert that thinking. Which is not always easy. I’m sure. 

Nicole: Yeah, no, it’s not. However, I do like how smart the investors are that come through high return real estate.  I really feel that those entering cash flow plus because they’re not just coming through high return real estate, there’s a number of other people similar to my job that are speaking with clients who then enter cash flow plus, I like to think that the investors that come through high return real estate and then enter cash flow plus are the smarter of the investors.

Jack: I love it.

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jack: I’m pretty sure they are. They have to be.

Nicole: I’m pretty sure they are because they come to us with usually a good setup already meaning they have cash, they understand that buying investments equals deductions in your taxes. They have a lot of basic understanding of investing and understand real estate a little bit. I mean you don’t have to understand it a ton to buy a turnkey property but you have some knowledge and you’re educating yourself to learn more. And so the investors that come in, they kind of like I said, they kind of have a background and systems and processes in place. Maybe they have an LLC already, and they understand they want to learn more. So. I don’t remember the original question, but oh, yes.

Jack: Oh yes. How does cash flow plus work?

Nicole: Yeah. Oh, okay. Well basically,  the investors that come in, we’re looking at a 3 pronged solution for them. And our investors understand that they are looking to minimize their taxes. So that’s one prong. They are looking to probably utilize other people’s money.

Jack: Yeah.

Nicole: And buying properties so I like that some of our investors do come to us and they’re like, well, I have all this cash and I want to buy one property. I’m like, well, what if you take all that cash and use leveraging and buy three properties? And they’re like, oh, I didn’t think about that. And then the 3rd  thing and this is the one that most of them don’t even think about is utilizing lazy assets that they have. 

Jack: What’s a lazy asset? This is a $1,000,000 question right here, right? 

Nicole: I know it is.

Jack: I love it. 

Nicole: Yeah. So lazy assets are your 401k, your Roth, your IRA, and your primary residence. So those are probably the biggest lazy assets that people have that they don’t realize and that they can tap into and not just not realize that they can tap into it, but like, when you think about your retirement count, you’re like, well, I can’t touch that the IRA or the IRS is going to dig me. There are ways around that that I have learned and that’s the people entering cash flow plus have learned to get around some of those IRS issues. 

Jack: Are you speaking of like the 72 T.?

Nicole:  Yeah. Yeah. That’s one of them, there’s a couple other laws and  they are constantly changing and we have a new administration and anytime that there’s a new administration tax laws change.

Jack: Sure.

Nicole:  And I don’t know what those tax laws are and what the changes are going to be. So what’s nice is that by being combined or being connected with a tax strategist who can stay on top of that for me and understand and focus on investing and making sure that I am in compliance and I’m not going to have to pay too many taxes. You can kind of start to see how all these kind of intermingle that you’re utilizing your lazy assets with the help of a tax strategist. 

Jack: Hold on a second. So I already have a CPA.

Nicole: Right.

Jack: What’s the difference between them? Like aren’t they a tax strategist? 

Nicole: Not quite, think about when you work with your CPA so you probably work with them what? once, twice, a year, maybe in January and then again in April. So obviously tax time. So your CPA, just like, I used to think my CPA was doing a fine job. They are designed to put numbers into a program, kind of like TurboTax maybe a little bit better than TurboTax a CPA is, especially if you have an LLC that you’re incorporating in but the tax strategist is, or your CPA is reactive I would say they’re not somebody that’s going to reach out to you say in July, Hey this tax law just came available. What do you think? We probably need to make some changes. 

So my CPA was always reactive. So I would call them if I had a question about something and they would be able to answer me for the most part I need a tax strategist or are the people going through cash flow plus, the tax strategists who then reach out if there’s a change in tax laws, they reach out and say,  Hey, I see that you’ve already made this much money this year.  Let’s do X, Y, Z to decrease your tax liability.  So that’s a little bit different. The CPA also does taxes for multiple occupations. The tax strategists that you get access to focuses in on investors and understands the tax laws that affect us.

Jack:  So that’s a great way to put it. A CPA is going to be more reactive. They’re going to take the information that you provide them. And they’re going to input that into all the various forms and which is a complicated thing, and it does require a high level of skills, definitely not a knock on CPAs because they are, they’re intelligent, they’re smart, they work very hard and they have a lot on their plate. They have a book of clients to get everybody all the way through not only tax season but then a lot of them do audits the rest of the year. So they don’t have the time and the bandwidth to go out and scour or be up on maybe all the latest and greatest ways to help higher income people reduce their taxes. They just don’t have the bandwidth. So for anybody that thinks that this is a knock on CPAs it’s not and a tax strategist is not a replacement for your CPA, either. 

The goal is for them to work in conjunction with each other. I remember Nicole,  my Accountant now is awesome, but the one before, I mean, we mutually parted ways because my tax strategy team gave me 3 great deductions that were all legal, ethical, tack it all documented in the code and I gave them to them and they wouldn’t, they like pushed back they wouldn’t put them in. Like these are too cavalier and we’re like, so my thought was like, what is your job? Like, what is your purpose? I thought your purpose was to help me pay the least amount of money in taxes that I’m ethically and legally responsible to pay and so for some CPAs, that is not the case, they don’t look at it that way.  So now there are probably some CPAs out there who do play the dual role of tax strategist, and also proactive and reactive at the same time. However, I would say that for the most part, that’s very much the spirit of a small percentage.

Nicole: Oh yeah. Yeah. We’ve lived lots of places and I’ve never run into one of those. 

Jack: Okay. Yeah. Me neither. 

Jack:  So could you give a couple examples of some tax strategies that you’ve utilized or your clients that have gone through cash flow plus have done something that maybe people wouldn’t normally think about that they could potentially utilize?  I’m not asking you to talk about the 72 T here because that one’s pretty complicated.

Nicole: It is.

Jack: And it’s a little bit higher level tax strategies that we probably don’t want to get into the weeds on that one.

Nicole: Yeah, and I would like to say that I am definitely not the expert, so I rely on the experts to figure out my taxes for me. So I did that this year. This year was the 1st year that I switched from my regular CPA that I’d been using for like 5 or 6 years. I actually kept him, he was back in Illinois. And I’m in Iowa and I tried somebody out here anyway. So I used the tax strategist this year and they were able to find deductions that I had no idea that could be deducted.  And they were actually losses that I’ve had on my books for years.  Like, oh gosh, probably 3 years. 

Jack: Yeah.

Nicole: And my CPA never picked it up. Now with this new organization there’s new tax strategists.  They were able to legally deduct the whole thing.  So it was crazy and then there’s the standard deductions by having your own LLC? Because of course I have an LLC because I buy properties, but there’s the vehicle the portions of your property that can be deducted but then it was like, they took all those standard deductions and put it on steroids they were able to tell me, okay, well, what about this, this, this, and this and I’m like, didn’t even know I could deduct that.  So it was so crazy this year.  So we’re getting so much back on our taxes this year that we had to file an extension.  Because it looks like we didn’t make any money and we’re trying to refinance our primary residence and then I have a refinance going  on one of my properties in Indianapolis, and we won’t qualify for loans the way our taxes currently are set up.  So never before in my entire adult life have I ever  been in this situation where I’ve gotten so much back.

Jack: Yeah.

Nicole:  And again legally. We’ve had other people look at it. Because we were like there’s no way this is legal.

Jack: Trust but you verify.

Nicole: Exactly. Trust but verify. And my husband is very conservative and I mean, he was like, this can’t be right. And I’m like, see, I’m more of a like, go with it.

Jack:  Yeah. You’re just like forgiveness. Instead of  Asking permission. 

Nicole: Oh gosh. I see that. I live by that. Oh, it’s so bad. I’m like, oh, the IRS knocks on the door and I’ll deal with it then but he’s like, no, we need to figure it out now before we file this.  And so we did, we had some people look at it and they were like, no, it’s totally legit.  So we were like, okay, so we wouldn’t file an extension so we haven’t filed yet. 

Jack: Awesome. So let’s talk about lazy assets. So, okay. So I have, let’s say I have a house, $400,000 say $500,000 house. I’ve got the mortgage paid down to $200,000. I think I’m crushing life. I’ve got $300,000 in equity in my home. Is that at lazy asset? 

Nicole: Very much so. 

Jack: Why and what makes it a lazy asset? Because I’m reducing my debt. I’m doing what the guru is telling me to do. Right? 

Nicole: Right. Well, one thing I’ve learned is that the gurus and everything we’ve been taught is wrong. Oh gosh. And it’s been really hard for somebody who has paid off two houses again, because we move a lot, to go wait for this house that I’m sitting in. Why not utilize the assets in this house? I worked hard to get equity in this property. Let’s use it. You can almost look at it like a giant bank and I’m not talking just a heloc there’s so many different strategies around it to utilize the equity in your house. And debt is not the enemy as long as you’re not overextending yourself. 

Nicole:  I mean, I’m not saying we’ve never told anybody, hey, you know what, we’re just going to take out equity in your house, but first I want you to go buy $1,000,000 house. Like, it’s not like we never want anybody to be in that situation and so it’s looking at your current home and going, all right, what equity is in there? What lazy asset is in there that we can we tap into.

Jack: So if when you say tap into it, you’re going to essentially borrow against it. So you’re using your house as collateral to borrow money back out to then add a low interest rate to then redeploy to at a higher interest rate. So therefore you’re creating this the spread between the 2 is the excess cash flow that you’re then going to enjoy of that lazy asset. Do I have it right? 

Nicole: Yes. Very much so. Yep. That’s a great way to put it.

Jack: Can you give me an example of an investor or a situation where somebody may not have equity in the house, but they took a lazy asset and converted it into something that’s producing cash flow. I mean. Stay in it maybe.

Nicole: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So we do have some investors that have really tapped into some of their lazy assets. We have a number of investors and not all of them by any means. The investors that come to us are from all walks of life. I will speak to one that is closer to retirement age because they had a lot of lazy assets and I’m talking about Roths and IRAs. There are methods and a lot of you guys probably know this. I did not but if there is, there are ways to put those into funds or a portion of those Roths and IRAs into funds in which you can then use to not just go buy a boat, the IRS doesn’t like that. But use those funds to then buy investments. So  this individual was able to move portions of his Roth and IRA into a self-directed account and in there he was able to purchase 8, between 8 and 10 notes. And now he is in the process of purchasing 4 or 5 properties.

Jack: So when you say notes. You mean like a mortgage backed note? They’re also called first trust deeds, and that’s essentially where you become the bank on a property. And then whoever owns the title to the property is paying you the monthly interest on that note. 

Nicole: That is correct. 

Jack: Okay. So he got, he got like 8 of them.

Nicole: Yeah.

Jack: And that’s some serious cash flow then that he’s got, you know, turning on those. What kind of interest rate does he getting on those notes?

Nicole: He’s between 7 and 10? And it depends on the length of the note. So like right now, a 20 year note is returning 7%.

Jack:  How was that, how is that possible when interest rates are like, you know, 3% right now for 30 or conventional? Like, why would anybody on the other end, why would they pay, 7, 8, 9, 10% on a note.

Nicole: Right. So on the other end, the person that purchased that note, they have gone through the program as well, and they’re buying properties and that’s kind of where the whole thing gets kind of puzzles together. Yeah. 

Jack: So they’re buying properties and instead of trying to go to a traditional bank where you have to wait 3 months, you have to give them the trust and deed to your 1st born son you’d have to go through the appraisal process, you have to go through. I mean, literally it’s like, I mean, when I went through it, it was like 25 pieces of documentation I had to dig up. What was crazy to me is that they needed a copy of the invoice of our homeowners HOA homeowners association bill for like $350. They needed to see that in terms of being able to approve me for the loan when you’re talking I have a multi-million dollar real estate portfolio. What the heck. Right. 

Nicole: Right.

Jack: So that’s what people have to go through when they go through the traditional lending on investment property so this is a way to write for them to get it done. Let’s go. Right. 

Nicole: Yes. Yeah. And when you get to the point where you’re like, I have the funds now, if they just sit there and for the next 3, 4 months, because it’s taking forever to get standard or traditional financing right now. What am I losing out on? You’re losing out on a ton because it’s just sitting there getting no interest. And so if you could put it into a property in which you’re cash flowing, 10, 12%? Maybe higher. It just depends on the property it makes sense. 

Jack: Yes. And they’re not stuck into that. That note.  They can refinance down the line. They could go out and refinance it with a lower interest rate. 

Nicole: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Just to be, I mean, when things soften up a little bit it doesn’t take so long or start the process while you’re cash flowing. Yeah. There’s a lot of options available.

Jack: Okay. So let’s talk about what are the investment products that when people go through cash flow plus that they’re able to purchase, obviously they’re not coming through cash flow plus they’re not purchasing stocks or bonds or cryptocurrency or pre IPO’s or gold or silver, right? What are they able to get? That’s going to help them in terms of their wealth building plan.  You’ve mentioned mortgage back notes so that’s one thing, right?  And then they’re able to get access to properties through this program. 

Nicole: Yep. Yeah. You actually do get properties, access to properties. What I like about it is that in Indianapolis the market’s like really hard to purchase into right now. So in cash flow plus it gives you access to 8, I think different locations right now.

Jack: Where are some of those markets?

Nicole:  Some of those markets are Memphis St. Louis, Fort Myers, Florida. Birmingham’s.

Jack: Chattanooga.

Nicole: Dayton, Ohio. Yeah, Chattanooga’s one. 

Jack: Birmingham was somewhere down.

Nicole: I thought I saw Birmingham on the list.

Jack: Okay. So of these markets that are on the radar that could potentially be offered here over the next few months as well. 

Nicole: That’s correct. Yeah. 

Jack: So that gives a lot more options  with inventory being so tight that gives an investor. So many more possibilities to buy something that makes sense. Right. 

Nicole: Right. 

Jack: Yes.

Nicole: They don’t have to sit and wait and so I liked that it’s the whole part of this plan. I want to do this now and I don’t want to wait. I mean, who wants to wait when you have this cash burning a hole in your pocket and you want to start cash flowing now.

Jack: What would you say to somebody who would say, well, I only want to buy properties like right in my own area where I can drive to in 10 or 15 minutes?

Nicole: I would say why, first of all, are you managing the property? No. Are you going to live in the property? No. That’s part of it. Secondly, does it make financial sense to buy where you currently live? Is it going to cash flow as well as say something in one of those locations that we mentioned, it may not make sense to buy properties in your backyard if it doesn’t cash flow. Because the majority of the people that come through cash flow plus are looking to increase their monthly cash flow. They want the cash now, they’re not usually worried about appreciation. Well I live in California and in 10 years it should be worth a million. Well is it going to cash flow? How much is that going to hurt you right now? Just to bet on appreciation.

Jack: Yeah. Wow. Instead of speculating for a potential gained down the future, which I’m not opposed to at all but in the meantime as Robert Kiyosaki stressed in his book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, and all of his books, if you’re buying something and you’re banking on appreciation, and it’s negative cash flowing or no cash flow and then what happens if that appreciation never actually hits.

Nicole: Right.

Jack: Like you waited all these years or however long, and you were losing money. So this is sophisticated investors do they buy things that cash flow now and also can appreciate as well.

Nicole: Right. 

Jack: So how is the plan created for me? If I do cash flow plus you’re going to create a plan for me?

Nicole: Yeah. It’s not quite like that we’ve had some investors that are like, Hey, just lay it all out for me. Well, it’s a give and take as we do work on creating a map. Map does stand for mutually agreed upon plan.

Jack: Nice.

Nicole: So it is something that you are working with cash flow plus to create your plan. And it’s not that we’re not throwing a bunch of modules at you. So the program is not okay. Well, you’re in the 4 hours a week or so to work on this. Here’s 4 hours of videos to watch. It’s not that it is. You’re actually speaking with a tax strategist, you’re speaking with me. 

Jack: You’re there guiding them through this process?

Nicole: I am. Yes. So that’s, so any of the investors that come through high return real estate into cash flow plus I am your main point of contact. So I help guide and we come to a decision that makes the most sense for you and it’s an education and I have investors that are like, well tax strategists sounds great. Going to stick with my CPA, like, oh, okay. It’s a mutually agreed upon payment plan. You can do that, it’s something that the program would say is probably not in your best interest, but were not going to force you to do anything that you are not comfortable with.

Jack: Okay. So that’s great. So  I love the map analogy to the acronym. That’s perfect. 

Nicole: Yeah. 

Jack: So are these programs expensive? This sounds like it would be pretty expensive to get a tax strategist to all these different moving parts and all this advice and the guided nature of this, this is a pretty high level of service. So. What are we looking at here, Nic? This is, sounds like this is only for the very wealthy.

Nicole: Right. What’s nice is that it does give you access to a lot of those organizations that I mentioned: lenders, tax strategists, turnkey companies that are all within the same network. And right now the introductory price it’ll go up a little bit in the future, but right now it’s only $750 and that’s a one-time fee. That’s how much it costs to just get in the program and start the process. And then there is a $45 per month fee that is charged and that’s just, so you have access to the portal and all of the items that you’re going to be working through all the different vendors because it’ll be again per month and that goes on indefinitely and then what’s nice is that even right now, is that when you get to the point of purchasing your first property, we’ll take $750 of the purchase price. So that fee to join the program is in a sense wiped out. 

Jack: Well, that’s a pretty, seems like a pretty generous offer. So what if I’m an investor? And I’m like, everything you said sounds great, but I still just want to buy properties. Can I just buy some properties? 

Nicole: Sure, sure. You can absolutely do that. We have a person that I would send you to that can work on the properties that maybe make sense for you, but I can’t guarantee that it’s going to make sense for you. It all goes back on you. You get to decide, all right, well, I want that property. I want this one and it looks good to me and okay maybe I’ll have some issues, but you know what I’m used to it. So there’s certainly ways to purchase properties without going through the whole program.


Jack: It sounds like they’re going to be best served if they do cash flow plus.

Nicole: Oh yeah.

Jack: They’re going to have almost like, is it like insider access almost to the best ones? 

Nicole: Oh yeah. I would say that without saying it. I would say that I would say that the properties that are going to. Be quote, unquote,  better properties, certainly go to those that have the education behind them and that means going through the program. There are other properties out there, but we’ll sell them. Yeah, sure. But they’re not probably as good of a product than if you were to go through the program.

Jack: Okay. That’s fair enough. All right, so we covered a lot of ground here, Nic, appreciate everything that you’ve shared. Is there any question that I should have asked that I didn’t ask you or any topic that we should have covered that would make sense to educate people about this whole, whole thing.

Nicole: A topic? Let’s see. Well.

Jack: You know what we didn’t cover what’s changed for you. Like, you know what, going through the whole program, what does it look like for you to know? 

Nicole: Yeah, so, okay. So our financial situation, I feel like my husband especially is really good with our finances and we meet every week to just discuss our finances and figure out what we want to do next. And we had this 10 year goal of replacing my husband’s income and doing whatever we wanted. And in that timeframe by going through the program has been cut in half. So our goal now as we continue through this program is to replace his income in 5 years. So, which is crazy to me, cause like our kids won’t even be through high school yet.

Jack: So you’re saying you have that on at least a 10 year plan and then now going through cash flow, plus you it set to where you believe that that’s cut down for 5 years.

Nicole: Right. We do. We didn’t know what we didn’t know. We both have full-time jobs. It’s not in finance, it’s not researching how to make our money work for us. So we were just going off of the education that we had. We both have higher degrees. I feel like we’re smart, but it’s not. It’s not the right smart. 

Jack:  I think a lot of there’s a lot there, there’s millions of smart people out there that just don’t know what they don’t know and it’s there’s a lot of alternative strategies that we know, I think intrinsically everybody knows that there are the small percentage of the wealthy out there that know something that we don’t know like they’re playing the game almost by a different set of rules, but we don’t know what those rules are. 

Nicole: Right. 

Jack: Yeah. And now with cash flow plus you’re learning the rules, 

Nicole: Right? Yeah. And I’ve got all my people in place to help me and that’s huge having those parts the tax strategist, the lender, the financial strategist having those individuals be able to know each other. I mean, that’s just crazy that I would never have been able to do that on my own. 

Jack:  Yeah. 

Nicole: So that’s pretty nice to have that cohesiveness.

Jack: So Nic, if they are interested in this program, they want to speak to you further. They want to learn and have more questions about cash flow plus or they’re like what I’m in. I want to get started. What’s their step? What do they need to do? 

Nicole: Okay. So you could get to us in lots of different ways. 1 just message Jack. So he could. 

Jack: No.

Nicole: He says no? Because he sends everything to me. It’s fine. Really? 

Jack: They’re going right to you.

Nicole: Okay. You want him to go right to me? Okay. So you just email me directly. It’s Nicole, [email protected]

Jack: And the website is


Nicole: Cash flow. Yes.  If you just go to that’ll you can get to it eventually but if you want to do it faster, it’s highreturnsrealestate.comcashflow. 

Jack: Okay. Very good. Well, thank you so much for joining us for all your expertise. I’m sure that there’s going to be listeners that are going to take you up on this now and in the future, whenever they’re ready to really maximize their real estate portfolio, their tax strategies, their mortgage back notes, all of these great things working together. This is so exciting

Nicole: It’s worth it.

Jack: And I love that we have this product and to be able to offer it to people. That’s truly a game changer. 

Nicole: Yep. 

Jack: So, all right, well thank you again everybody. Thank you for listening to indestructible Wealth. Well see you on the next show. Stay tuned. Have a great day. .


That’s a wrap for this episode on the Indestructible wealth podcast. Before we part ways, I want to help you to take advantage of 2 incredible tax saving strategies that could help you save a lot of money.  All you have to do is leave me a 5 star review – if I’ve earned it – and comment in iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you tune in. After you’ve done that simple step, just email me a screenshot to [email protected] and I’ll send you everything you need to save money on your taxes for years to come.  If you’d like to dive deeper into your own wealth building strategy, check us out at and follow along on social media. Also, please share this podcast with anyone who’s looking for guidance on their own wealth building journey. Until next time, remember our mission here is to help you make, keep, and grow wealth you can enjoy now, and for years to come.


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