True philanthropy doesn’t begin when you earn a certain amount.  Jack and Micah dive into why we earn, and more importantly, how this can bless others.Listen in on Spotify or Apple Podcasts!

About Indestructible Wealth: I’m Jack Gibson. I’m your wealth strategist and I’m here to help you make some money. The Indestructible Wealth Podcast is for young entrepreneurs who want to make, keep and grow wealth to enjoy now, and for years to come.

Episode #29 – Building Legacy with Special Guest Micah Schoeplein


Welcome to the Indestructible Wealth Podcast. This is the place where we help young entrepreneurs to make, keep, and grow wealth that you can enjoy now, and for years to come. I’m your host Jack Gibson, a serial entrepreneur, founder of multiple seven and eight figure businesses, and wealth building strategist. Each week I’m going to share my tips, resources and secrets, to help you create a plan and build the life you’ve dreamed of. 

Jack: All right. Welcome to the show. Micah is so excited to have you today. So first question, how do you feel about our golf outing getting canceled today? I was really looking forward to it.

Micah: I can tell you this. I would much rather be doing that than talking to you on a screen right now. 

Jack: I’m not offended because I feel the same way. That was rough. 

Micah: I still am a little bit upset. So you bring me up some scar tissue wounds that are being healed as we speak. There’s no way we’re going to be able to make it up either. So that’s always a good thing too, by the way. 

Jack: Yeah. The good news is that I saved $250 from not going and playing and potentially that’s a lot less colorful language that you heard for the day.

Micah: And the bad news is I can’t watch you meltdown in front of 2 guys who don’t know you.

Micah: There’d be guys out there. They’d be like what’s going on over there. 

Jack: So my defense, I think only melded down the one time where Kara was beating both of us that one night.

Micah: You want to keep bringing this up? Golf has been enjoyable. It’s an enjoyable hobby of mine. Sometimes it makes me want to burn down my house.

Jack: Yeah. About that. The problem with this is that I feel like out on the golf course, I can say what I want to say and include all the different adjectives that I use. And now on this podcast, I feel like I got to really be more refined and watch myself. 

Micah: Yeah, I was skipping your other podcasts and you definitely have explicit episodes whenever you have the block E underneath. I’m like am I listening to a ludacris  album or what?

Jack: Well. May God forgive me and I’ll make it up in other ways. How about that? 

Micah: I hope so. 

Jack: Listen, you’re the one who decided to reload Instagram, so you could listen and watch my reel videos. Okay. So that’s all I knew.

Micah: They’re fantastic. The real video, if you haven’t spent time on Jack’s pages. I will say this though last night, I almost texted you because I was laying in bed very late and I don’t have any social media on my phone. I re-download every day. If I wanted to use it for about 10 or 15 minutes and I didn’t want him to turn up the volume. So I made sure when I got 2 years that I swiped away really quickly so I could watch them today with volume, because if I don’t have time or I was trying to decompress and go to sleep so I’m still supporting you, but you have to listen to Jack videos with volume, fully engaged. 

Jack: Oh yeah. I’ve had some good ones, but I really have. I’ve missed like the last 7 days because I’m hung up on the editing process. I really hate that part of it so I’m trying to figure it out, but I’ll be back on reels you guys, don’t worry. I know you’ve missed them.

Micah: I feel like John would be just the ACE in the back pocket. Just start telling him man, you gotta start doing the reel edits. Just have a little personal sidekick photographer guy. 

Jack: Yeah. That’s a good idea. The problem is he’s 13, so it’s hard to give him focus. 

Micah: Yeah. I could see that, but it’s technology and that’s one of the only things that he does focus on. 

Jack: Yeah. That’s a good point. Let me re-engage him on that. That’s a great idea. He might answer. It might be right in front of me knowing me every day. 

Micah: It’s very true. I hope that he sticks with track though, because I do love going to track meets with you watching him run. Because that is fun too.

Jack: Oh God don’t go there. Because what do I say, do I yell? I’m like, run faster!  I don’t know what else to say. 

Micah: You practiced, you don’t run, you don’t practice and you think you’re going to come out here win. 

Jack: We had a bet and I never actually followed through on it. We were supposed to go run like a 2 mile race or 2.2, which was cross country. Yeah, I know. And if he beat me, he was going to get a $500 item, I don’t know what he wanted. It’s like something like an apple, something new, but if I beat him he was off technology for a month. So yeah. 

Micah: Not worth it. Not worth it for jack. 

Jack: So he took the bat. He is so cocky but he could beat me. And so we’ve got to make this happen. I think I could beat it. 

Micah: I’ll be at the finish line. I’m not going to lie a 2.2 miles sounds like a little bit of death for me, but it’s okay because you’re the one doing the race. I’m just there. 

Jack: Me too. But if it would’ve gotten him off technology for a month I think it’s worth it. So I’m doing it even though I might die. We got to teach people with money on this show. That’s what we do. So you’re young and you’re doing really well on a pretty limited income as a pastor. And I wanted you to specifically talk about some of the principles of what you’ve done too. How’s hack and be able to build up some pretty nice funds for a young strapping young man. Okay. Tell us a little bit about your background Micah. Let’s start there. 

Micah: All right, Jack I don’t even think we’ve had this conversation really about my background.

Jack: Probably I have no idea what you’re about to say at all. Even though we probably spent 200 hours together.

Micah: Especially COVID year we were borderline married couple. Anyway, what you said is true it’s funny because I think that a lot of the times there is a little bit of it’s not necessarily myth because there is truth to it where you got to have money to make money, but I would also say you have to have character to make money and I think that’s the one thing that I’ve always really leaned into is how to be somebody who has character because to find people with character is a lot harder to find the defined people with money no offense because character you doing what you’re saying and saying what you’re mean and showing up on time, being consistent, being faithful, those are the things that have always marked my life and have allowed me to be at the place I’m at. When I graduated high school, I went to my parents and pretty much forced me into missions for a year. Like my dad was like, okay you’re either going to go to college or you’re going to take a little mission trip and I was like, I guess I’ll go on a mission trip. 

Jack: The lesser do evils at the time.

Micah: Yeah, pretty much. I kept trying to convince him. I’m like, I’m playing for the Packers 4 years and he’s no you’re not. My dad is a little bit more of a realist. When I came back, I was in Orlando for 3 months and then India for 2 and a half when I came back. I remember at a young age I had, when I was like 9 years old my mom loves telling the story and my mom, she’s a storyteller. 

Jack: Oh yeah. She caught us yesterday for 10 minutes to church. 

Micah: She is about 3 inches away from your face too. You’re like I smell your dinner from last night. But now when I come back when I was young, she tells me the story all the time I used to. I had a shirt when I was probably 7 or 8, wrote the working dude on it and went door to door in my neighborhood asking if there were any odd jobs I could do to make money. And I had my plain white t-shirt that said the work and dude, with all of the words misspelled. But when I got back I remember I was at a crossroads in life where I was trying to understand what I was going to do. I didn’t really feel like I was going to be a missionary. I didn’t really feel like I was going to go to college and so the first thing I did was a fun fact. I started out selling supplements at GNC and so I sold supplements at GNC and really I went from a part-time sales guy there to within a year of being a store manager and we actually it’s funny, I’ve a lot of funny stories about GNC. One of my personal favorites is my first day of management at 19, they told me to call everybody who worked there and let them know that they were fired. 

Jack: Wow. 

Micah: So that was 19 year old Micah. Actually within a year we had this is just how the Lord is with characters within a year. I’ve just had a crazy favor in my life that was a top 5 store in Michigan at a Benton Harbor out of the orchard small. But then I had someone of notoriety in our community come in a car dealer who owned 4 car dealerships. And essentially he. Came in one day and said, Hey, I sold them a lot of products and he looked at me and he’s like dude you’re a natural, I want you to come work for me and I was like dude, what do you even do? And he’s oh I’m a car salesman. I was like I’m not doing that and he was like I’ll double, whatever you’re making right now. I’ll give you full benefits. He’s what I got to get you to do to work for me? I was like in all honesty man in your car salesman all you’re doing is trying to sell and he’s not really. So he actually wrote up on a piece of paper an offer to double my salary. He gave me flexible hours. He gave me health insurance, and then he guaranteed it for a year. And so I literally left GNC.

Jack: Did you leave that store right then and there?

Micah: I told my boss and he’s like yeah, you should probably take that. So they didn’t even really entertain anything. What was funny about it though was I called my dad and I know my dad’s been out of here my dad was like, he goes, car sales is, and I was like, yeah, I know. All right, whatever. So what was funny is when I left I was getting paid like I sold like 34 cars a month, which is just ridiculous. As a 19 year old, I got my old license plate and could drive any car. Put it on any car at the end of the day, blah, blah, blah. But I only made it there not even a year. It was pretty awful. At that time, I had gone to some conferences and some things and felt like I wanted to start a college ministry really to help college aged students really figure out life and what it means. Got to pursue Jesus in that age range and so I literally quit that job and I went from making I essentially worked 3 jobs, one at the church landscaping and I went back to part-time GNC and I quit that job and I essentially what I made in one week in my old job I made it six weeks on my 3 new jobs. So it was definitely a step back and I was living on my own. It was not a really good season, but I just grind it, and so that was when I was 20 and then from there I just started moving and shaken a little bit in terms of I just knew I had friends that kind of understood real estate. So my first flip house I got when I was 22 was a house that had fallen through HUD. So we called it. It was right by our church it was a piece of crap. They had a kid there that had you love these flip stories. I know you’ve probably got a billion of them. 

Jack: You’re taking on some things not too many people were touched. Let’s put it that way. 

Micah: This would have had a kid that had anger management issues and so it busted out all the windows and punched holes in all the walls and then it was bad to have written in Sharpie stuff on the walls because it got repossessed.

Jack: I’m feeling a lot better about my anger management on the golf course now that you just told me. 

Micah: It’s true. Every hole I’m repairing. I’m like if this is interesting, this was a fist that I’m repairing right here and the drywall. But I ended up getting that house flipped through HUD and nobody pretty much wanted it and then ultimately we stole that one and did pretty well on it.

Jack: Did you fix it up?

Micah: Oh yeah, I did. So that’s what we’ve always done is me and my dad because it’s character too he helped me a little bit and then I just do a lot of the grinder grunt prep work. So I fixed that one up and lived in it, and then I had a few renters. I had renters in it for years, and then I rolled over a HELOC of that one into another one that I bought at a garage sale.

Jack: You pulled out a HELOC or home equity line of credit on that first one, so that you had funds to buy the next one. 

Micah: Yup. Yup. So it became essentially how it worked is I HELOC to complete the basement and I was looking to get out of it. This will give you an idea of who I am, I was at a garage sale and I was walking around a really nice house at the time. Awful house. But it was in a really good part of town. It was a 3 bedroom, 2 bath, 2 car garage, 1800 square feet. And I knew that there was no way they were going to get a conventional loan on it. I was walking around and I asked, Hey, is the owner of the home here at the garage sale? And they’re like oh yeah, he’s inside. So I went inside and I just started talking to them and I just looked at him and I said, Hey, you sell this house and he goes, yeah, that was probably 25. And I was like how much are you selling it for? And he goes I can’t get a conventional loan on it. And I really want somebody to be here. 4 or 5 years. And I’d like to be able to pop in and out and be able to look at the construction and I’d love to get the paneling off the wall because it’s been in my family for 50 years and I was like I’ll do all that. He was like what do you mean? I was like, I’ll make you an offer right now. You want to buy this? And I was like, yeah, he’s like I was thinking 60 and I was like I was thinking 40. And he goes. We’ll meet in the middle. And I said, I’ll be back in a half hour with $1,500 cash and that’s how I ran to the bank and came back and I called my dad and said Hey, I just bought a house at the garage sale.

Jack: That’s incredible. What hits you? That would be a good one house for you?

Micah: Oh I knew, that’s the thing is I think I’ve always been a little bit of a visionary where I could see things not for what they are or for what they can become. And I think that’s a little bit of a mindset that too, a lot of people it’s just we get so caught up in what’s right in front of us instead of what can become of just if you have vision to really see things.

Jack: That’s the same. Don’t you think the same thing applies to humans? 

Micah: Yeah. It’s such a bit, it’s a biblical principle is what it is. When you talk about faith Hebrews 11, one says this is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things you can’t see. So you’re hoping for something you can’t see and that’s faith and that’s what all the fallen Jesus says, All right. Go do it right. Can you give me a little more here? So I think that applies really to anything, whether it’s business or finances or church ministry or whatever if you’re going to be somebody who follows the Lord and you’re always going to have to see with eyes of faith rather than the eyes of your inefficiencies or weaknesses or the constraints or limitations that are in front of you. You’re always going to have to really believe and trust that deep down and with me it’s always easier because I built my life on the rock. So I really do pray about everything and try to not to WWJD everything, but a little bit WWJD things. What would the Lord do or what? And in that situation I knew if I got this house for 50, I know that my previous house is a worse house than that, but this is probably 60 to 70 and so then I’m at 21. I know this house was missing a few years ago. I’m like, I know this house is probably 180, 190 well now it’s we just sold it for 2 25 or 2 23 actually I like to be accurate. 

Jack: So you’re talking about the house that you’re in right now that you just got under contract. You got that one at the garage hill? 

Micah: Yes.

Jack: Okay. I didn’t know. I thought it was a different house. 

Micah: The best part is, and this will give you another idea. This is a character thing once again. It is my first flip house . When I closed on my second flip house we actually got a third one mainly because my neighbor calls me after my first flip house. She was almost like a 90 year old woman. She called me and I’d helped her a lot. Just anything she needed. She knew she could was calling me and I’d help her. And she said Hey, do you mind helping me move? And I said, yeah, we can help you move. And she goes, great. Can you buy my house too? And I was like I actually just closed on another house. She was like I want you to buy it because you did such a great job on yours and I know you trust and love you. And I’d love for it to be, for it to be yours. And then I go in all honesty, I’m not really looking at it and she goes, even if it was $30,000. Oh I think we’re interested. Yeah. We’re probably interested.

Jack: What do you think it’s worth? That’s the one for $30,000. 

Micah: I ended up wholesale on that one, a little bit off of my chest. I didn’t want to work on another one, but once it’s all done it’s being remodeled I know right now, once it’s all done it’ll be worth, I don’t know because I haven’t actually seen what the plan is with it but it’ll probably be now the $150,000, $170,000. 

Jack: So you wholesaled it, you got it for $30,000 and then you just flip it to somebody else. What’d you sell it for? Or what did you get?

Micah: I don’t know what they’re going to sell it for. I will keep being honest. I don’t even necessarily remember the exact.

Jack: 50, 60, 70? 

Micah: No. In that one actually, I get, it went to a family member and it was more of a blessing thing. I wasn’t looking to, I made some money on it. I don’t think it was that much but it was more about somebody I knew who wanted it and was looking and so I just wanted to help them out. That’s and I think that’s even a huge thing to understand too because Jack I know you do that and that’s maybe something people don’t realize is you want to make, you want to make money in the maximum amount of money you always can but at the same time, you also want to help people.

Jack: Absolutely.

Micah: And anytime you can help people or you can bless people, who’ve blessed you it feels good. And for me, I never want to be the guy who everybody says, oh, he’s trying to make the max and do whatever is needed. I want to be somebody who looks and they look and say that guy could have done a lot more than he did, but he was generous. And I don’t really run into people like that because for me, I don’t really have an excuse. That’s the other thing. I think people think you grow into generosity. So once you get to a level of which you can be generous and it won’t cost you, you don’t have to be generous then rather than if you’re not faithful with the little, you’ll never get the much. And that’s such a biblical principle where it’s like so many people are like, oh, I don’t really make enough to give I don’t really, can’t really give back can’t really do this to that and it’s I’ve never made a ton of money, but I’ve always give, gave above 10% every year and even more than that is I could have made so much more on separate little things. But when it’s for friends it’s for family aids for people you care for, or it’s for people who just need help I think that the object isn’t about It doesn’t come down to what’s karma gonna do it comes down to I want to be remembered as somebody who was generous and who really loved people and put my no pun intended money where my mouth is. And so I think that it’s always been important to me and I think it will always be really important to me is that you don’t need a lot to give a little, it’s important. 

Jack: A lot of times when we hear the word philanthropy or think of a philanthropist, the image comes up of this mega multimillionaire, billionaire, and philanthropy is a way of life. It’s not some place that you just arrive at some point in your future when you have this massive abundance. I always say if you can’t give a $1 out of $10 or you can’t give a $100 out of a $1000 what’s the chances that when you get blessed with a million that you’re going to get 100,000 out of that? It’s not looking real good.


Micah: And what’s funny is that this last house that we sold I think me and my wife, I think the numbers are, we’re like 64, 65. And I remember in my mind I said Lord, what do you want me to do? With my 10% had I’d known how much we were going to make. I didn’t know. I had a ballpark but I fleeced myself I said, I’m going to contact 3 or 5 missionaries that are in different parts of the world that I know are looking for finances and I’m going to commit a set amount to them before this house even sells in faith that it’s going to sell at this 10% mark. And I knew that no matter what I was giving money away, like it wasn’t, I didn’t wait until I had the money to give it away. I committed because I knew I was going to make some, I just committed it and said, you know what? My very first thing that I’m thinking about is how I can bless other people and I think that’s so hard today to even think rationally about it. The very first thing you’re thinking about is like how you can bless others. That’s just such a foreign concept. But I think that’s the hands that God blesses is when he says listen if I can if I can get it through you I can get it to you and I think that’s always the test of humanity and really if you’re going to be able to acquire or build wealth is if you’re going to be somebody who gives it away. 

Jack: How old are you?

Micah: 29, freshly minted

Jack: Freshly minted 29 year old you got too much wisdom, one of the things I know about you Micah, is that you always like just seeing happiness. Like you’ve got joy in your heart I should say. You’re not always happy on the golf course. I can definitely say that. You don’t use the colorful language that I do. 

Micah: It might be in my head though. You never know. 

Jack: That’s true. I love it because you can live vicariously through me. So you got this joy in your heart and where do you attribute that from? What do you think that’s coming from? 

Micah: Jack’s oh, I’m just going to tee this up right and hit a grand slam.

Jack: Oh yeah.

Micah:  For me, my favorite passage is seek first the kingdom and righteousness and all things are added. It’s one of my favorite passages, another one is second Timothy 23 though. We are unfaithful. He remains faithful, he cannot deny who he is. For me. I know if I’m seeking the kingdom and righteousness, that all things are going to be added and I’m not going to worry about stuff. And my number 1 ambition is to be somebody who really in our day and age, it’s getting harder and harder for people to see Jesus in the world or see Jesus in people and so if I could be somebody who people really can see something different and I can point people to Jesus that’s my goal. So I think that happiness to joy are the hard things that are almost on the back border. A lot of the time, as it pertains to really living our life, we think those are more like byproducts more than they are like primary products. Whereas when you truly, I think are seeking out a lifestyle of it’s not about me. It’s about Jesus and it’s about loving Jesus and loving my neighbor. I think that everything else, once again, is added onto you. And so my joy has always been in serving the Lord and loving people and trust, and that he’ll bring everything else into alignment. 

Jack: So you texted me what? 2 weeks ago? And you said Hey, I need to stop by your house. I got a big announcement. Okay. So now put this into context for the listeners, Micah and I, he’s pretty much the only person I go out golfing with besides my wife. So nothing you’re my only friend. Okay. I do have other friends. I want that job.

Micah: But I’m easily taught 2 or 3. 

Jack: You’re up there. 

Micah: We’re not going to skate out there. 

Jack: I’ll give you that just because you’re leaving and now I have to replace you. 

Micah: No, you won’t because you’ll just come down to Arizona, like 2 or 3 times a year, and then I’ll just still stake my claim.

Jack: So he says that he’s got this big announcement, so I’m thinking, okay, he just got married. Is it possible that he’s having a baby? 

Micah: Absolutely not.

Jack: Okay. A big announcement is either A you’re having a baby which is bad.

Micah: That’s why I’m not having one.

Jack: Yeah. Okay. Maybe you did it. I didn’t know if you thought that like for just being sane.

Micah: I’m a planner. We got that. We’re good. 

Jack: Okay. All right. Clear. So that’d B he’s moving and he took a job at another church. She’s going to go start a church. So I said in the text he said, I don’t want to hear either option because they both stink. So anyways, he came over and announced that you are doing what.? Where are you going? That’s easy. I’m building a church from scratch in a city. I don’t know anybody and 3,000 miles from my grassroots home roots family all your what? 20 family members and your parish and all of that. We don’t want you to go into the 40 minute version, but what hits you to want to do that? 

Micah: I think for me is I do have a little entrepreneurial mindset and I always want to be somebody who when I look at my life I think your life is broken down in what I would classify as your assignment and I think your assignment portion of life is really like a 20 to 25 year increment where you’re really working towards something strategically that feels bigger than yourself. And that’s just me boiling down like what I would feel an assignment was so really a year ago when in COVID when everything was shutting down and I was just, I was going into a season where me and my wife were getting married. I wanted to make sure that assignment portion of my life that 20 to 25 year portion was something that felt so out there so much faith-filled and so much like borderline Micah, like that’s only Micah would do that that truly I could dedicate my life to and there’s a long story into kind of what went into the prayer and some things like that. But for me, it was always about what is the maximum amount of faith that I could step out in and really see if God will meet me and I’m fully, I’m fully expecting you well, but there’s a verse. This is my phone right here. There’s a verse. These are actually verses in my bag. It’s in Luke 18,29 through 30. It says any said to him, truly I say to you, there is no one who has left a house, a wife, brothers, parents, children, or friends for the sake of the kingdom who will not receive many more times, not only in this life but in the age to come. And so that’s a verse I’ve stood on ever since we’ve made this decision is there’s nobody who’s left everything behind for the sake of the kingdom I won’t give many more times above in this stage and in the age to come. And for me I just, as I looked at that trajectory of my life, I wanted to be remembered as somebody who didn’t just preach faith, but truly said, you know what? I’ll put everything on the line for it. 

Jack: So that’s amazing. And certainly the Gibson family everybody at the church is going to miss you. In fact, the Gibson family teared up, when we heard the announcement for the second time, Live stream while we’re driving up to our trip. Because we figured that you would be here and take over for your dad at some point and now you’re not so that’s tough to swallow, but we know that you have the entrepreneurial spirit and that you’d love just like me. You love that challenge of starting something from scratch and you just have this deeper need for a challenge for fulfillment for as you said eloquently as you said it, what the scripture says that’s amazing. What financially is this going to look like in terms of how do you get this going? Talking it’s like a business, in a way. 

Micah: Very much so.

Jack: We’re not kind of it is. 

Micah: Yeah, it is. And that’s so I think that’s where the intersection of like faith and practicality always has. It always has a little bit of friction, like how do you live in faith but also live practically. Because Jack, it’s okay, you can have faith for all of these things, but if you’re not doing anything practical, it’s oh, we all want, your thing, Indestructible wealth. Like how do we build a lifestyle where we ultimately live out an indestructible wealth mindset, but if you don’t have any practical goals, you’re never going to get there and so for me the practical level of it is truly like just trust in the Lord as it pertains to finances, we’ve already been essentially when I made the decision in March, I started reaching out to organizations and different planting networks that will partner financially. But at the same time too we’re drumming up a little bit of a campaign for us at our church that really would be ascending thing and essentially I guess it’s, this is one way to look at it is between some of the flip houses and different things from a personal standpoint, we should be me and my wife for fine for really like about a year and a half and then after that it’s kind of Lord I hope you’re going to come through. But if you were to look at me and say, Hey, you got a year and a half to really get yourself dialed in and be able to build a church sufficiently and with a base of health and longevity and sustainability I would look to you and say okay, that’s plenty of time.

For me it looks like, I’d love to say ballpark number. We’d love to raise $250,000 right now where we’re at. No, we’ve got a partnership with an organization that hopefully next week we can get finalized which is a decent chunk of finances but I think we’re w we’re probably right now in the 120 to 125 range still. And what’s funny is we haven’t even done really any big pushes or anything like that me and my dad actually were just talking last week we’re gonna do a big push starting in for in a weekend in October for it, but if we can get to that really 250 range, that gives us the freedom to really dream big and the biggest thing is I’m going to be in the top 5 city and marketed in America and Phoenix, the valley area. So everything’s just a little bit more expensive but that’s the thing. Once again when you’re faithful with little he trusts you with much and that’s something that, I think, proved here. And even in the seasons where I had much and have had little is that you just consistently bring it to the Lord and trust that he’ll give you the direction, but character once again not to bring it back to the first 2 minutes of today but characters really the thing I mean if you don’t have character, no offense, you don’t really have anything. Like you could be a hard worker. You could be good with finances, but like character truly is to me, I think make or break as it pertains to just if people believe in you, if people want to partner with you if you’re going to be able to build anything lasting those types of things, all come down to who you are and what you believe in what you stand on. And so for me, I think. Character has a track record and I’ve been at our church for 10 years. I’ve been anything you can ask anything you can think I’ve done and I’m willing to do and I think those are the things that kind of separate the people of character versus the ones who don’t. There’s nothing beneath me. There’s nothing I’m not willing to do from a biblical perspective, obviously and at the same time, just consistently coming to the Lord and making sure that I’m following his word and following his spirit and submitting to people who are older and more wiser than me, who can lean into and give me advice as well.

Jack: It was so crazy to think that when you came over that night to tell us that you were going to Arizona, I had just signed a purchase agreement on my one of my very first investment, rental properties that was in Arizona city not probably less than an hour or so from where you’re going to get your new church. And I just said, this just can’t be a coincidence. This is God speaking to me saying dude, you got blessed on this, on this property you took $80,000 out of state and bought it sight unseen guided to now selling it for $250,000 just yesterday’s later. I’m like, this is just too much of a sign. I need to make a donation. That’s amazing. And that’s what Indestructible wealth is to me that’s why this whole platform is about. Yes, it’s you want to build financial freedom and great finances for yourself and then for your family and but there’s something much bigger than that, that you can be a part of being a part of helping the church to grow from scratch, being a part of blessing missions, being a part of feeding the hungry, being a part of supporting young life, where that’s to help the high school kids to have a better, support network. I think that’s what this is really all about. It’s not just about how do you get yours? It’s so much more impactful and meaningful and fulfilling. 

Micah: Yeah. And I don’t even know if you remember this talk that we had, we were in your basement shooting the breeze late at night. This was probably a few years ago, we were talking about really what legacy is. I do remember this as you were chatting specifically about just like what leaving a legacy was. And we were just chatting about really what that means, and it was that and it wasn’t a super long conversation, but I remember it because it was late at night and I think we were just talking about church stuff and then you were talking about just wanting to do things that really left a legacy and I think that we don’t necessarily think about that as much as we probably should, like at the end of your life, what are people going to remember you for? They gonna remember you for how much money was in your bank account, they’re going to remember you for how you made them feel or how you believed in them or how you were there for them in a tough time, or how you supported them or how, no matter what went on in life, you were always there those are the things that from a legacy perspective, really make an impact.


And I’m a big reader and so it’s interesting to look at a lot of these were Roman leaders and even like the Egyptian pharaohs and stuff that would just try and carve their names into stone and make their monuments to that they just wouldn’t be forgotten and in an essence, because they did that, they weren’t forgotten, but what are the pieces of stone that we’re carving or legacies into because it’s not about the things that are fleeting. It’s about the things that are gonna last. And when you ask yourself the question, what’s your legacy going to be? I wanted to go out as somebody who I risked it, I put it all on the line and I trusted that the Lord was going to meet me, but there I wasn’t going to live comfortably.


I wasn’t going to live easy. I wasn’t going to live with it, handed to me. I was going to live going out as the warrior says going out on my shield, and so for me, I think that’s always been something I’ve wanted to do is to be somebody who when people looked at my life they said, man that guy really followed and gave everything for the Lord. And I think even for you your legacy has, is shifting into what can I give back? I think that’s the greatest place you can find yourself is when you’ve had accolades, you’ve had success and it pivots from not more success to, how can I give the success to other people to see them have success as well?

Jack: Yeah, I think, you and I probably were arriving at the same thing last year when COVID all the shutdown and we had a time to listen to that still voice within we realized that there was something bigger that we both wanted to do and we were never really talking about that. We were just probably both contemplating searching and trying to figure that out and so for me it was this platform. I realized that I needed to, I had a message. I think I could really make a difference for younger entrepreneurs and professionals and I could give them a little piece of my knowledge and experience and so it’s interesting how we both arrived at the same thing. Just different ways of view on that. 

Micah: Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. 

Jack: So I’m a. I’m just wondering, I guess the big question I’ve had on my mind is when you go, can I get your directV login or that, can you switch that transfer over to my house. So I have edit, I want Sunday tickets. I can get the Cleveland Browns game. 

Micah: Oh, what’s funny about that is I literally made, That’s a whole nother thing, is finding the right deals. That was a promotion for college students that I signed my wife’s younger sister up for that she didn’t even realize she had, but I was paying for it. So it didn’t matter. So technically you would have to ask Faye Hester for that luck. 

Jack: Okay. I think I could probably be like that.

Micah: She probably be like, what are you talking about? Mike had told me to hit you up for that Sunday ticket log and she’s what? 

Jack: What are they talking about? So I can’t get the Cleveland Browns NFL Sunday games in less I have directV and I don’t want to get directV for my whole package I’ve already got everything set, so I can’t get it but if I say that a college student is at my house which I mean we had one stay with our dog for 5 days. She stayed here at her house so that could count. 

Micah: That counts.

Jack: Yeah. She lived here. Yes. All right. So I think the last question for you and we’re going to wrap it up, what’s the one question that I didn’t ask you that I maybe I could have or should have that you could get some parting advice to the younger entrepreneurs and professionals about the money game.

Micah: It’s a good question. 

Jack: We’ll edit out all the dry silence.

Micah: I was going to say. I think for me you probably talk about diversifying. I know that you’re somebody who is a proponent of diversifying stuff. And for me I think that’s something I’m wanting to do, you remember the laundry bag conversation in the parking lot. I think the first thing you need to do is to find people who are way farther ahead of you and ask a lot of questions and write a lot of things down. And what I mean by that is I think a lot of the times like people, they want your advice, but they won’t remember. They don’t do anything to remember or implement it so you’re just like, this kind of feels like a waste of time. And so for me I really highlighted people who I knew things about. I know really even early on one of the guys who taught me quite a lot was one of my best friends still is Matt. In terms of just understanding my dad had talked to me a little bit. Matt Cbre, he really helped me out on like, how do you assess a flip house? Or like understanding kind of the market a little bit. So that really helped me because. He was somebody who was farther ahead and he was doing it. He wasn’t a realtor at the time and so all he did was just casually mentioned things and then I’m putting the numbers together in my mind and I’m like, okay, I think I can do that and then with my dad I’ve always had that relationship in terms of bouncing off ideas and there’s another mentor I have named Joe Matthews. He’s actually the one who turned me on I’d love to in the next 5 years. Have some form of laundromat business. I’ve been doing a lot of research on it and it just is an industry that intrigues me because a lot of laundromats are really owned by older couples that are phasing out of that industry. And it’s not a sexy, passive income, industry it’s you got to load the soap dispenser, like caliber cores.

Jack: There’s a lot of cash that’s come through those stuff. 

Micah: But I mean it’s a monster industry and so for me, and that whole idea didn’t come from, it came from, I was with a mentor one time and he just looked at me and this guy’s very very well for himself. And he looked at me and said, I’ve done 4 to 5 different industries as well as been a top executive, a top executive and a massive company that’s about an hour away from here. And he’s dude, one of the best investments I ever made and put multiple kids through college is coin laundry and then I went to some of his laundromats and started research and systems and processes, and read books on it. So those are the types of things. I think deep down we just want somebody to drop the golden idea on our lap and then just do these 10 things and, boom, you’re there but rather than us okay, who are the people I respect that I have proximity to and I have access to, how can I pick their brain? In the most thorough and respectable way and then what can I implement into my life to set myself up to maybe live out some of the things that they’re saying. Because I’m not saying that I’m actively looking at laundromats right now, but I am saying that is something that actively interests me just based off of conversations that I’ve had with a mentor. So really you can never underestimate the value of getting around people who will challenge your ways of thinking who will push you but at the same time, who are just farther ahead and being okay with not having for lack of a better term, the penis measuring competition with. Which Jack, and I know you probably know exactly what I’m talking about. It’s like you get her out people and they’re like, okay how many units or what are you this, that, and that, what can I just learn? I can learn from everybody. What can I learn? And I really think that in my life, I’m a product of my network, not my net worth. 

Jack: I do know that when I’ve focused on the net worth or like to an extreme that’s led to a lot of unhappiness.

Micah: Yeah. 

Jack: And I think what’s most important for all of us is that it’s, what’s the trajectory that you’re on. And are you healthy and you happy where you’re at right now as you strive for more growth. And that’s made a huge difference for me to have peace in my heart and not just worrying about things like, where am I trying to get to? I don’t need to get to the next goal or the next place, be healthy and happy this year and enjoy this as I strive to continue to grow. So I know that you’ve got that down so listen, thanks so much for joining us. How do people follow you? You said you’re not very active on social media, but what’s the name of your church and what are they going to be able to find?

Micah: Oh, great question. I actually have to be more active when I move because I feel like I have an obligation to the people here in Michigan to see my life who are sewing into that vision and flowing into that season. So I have an obligation to be, so I’m planning on coming out of the attic in the next, probably within the next month or 2 and really getting more active and engaging on that, just because I know, people are so wanting to be in that may be the only way that they can see. So it’s just like a chef line on Facebook or Instagram. And the name of our church is a Fixate Phoenix. 

Jack: You live stream?

Micah: Oh yeah. We’ll have, but we’re quite a bit out in terms of when those will be starting and so what it’ll look like is we’ll have really hopefully I was just talking to my wife about this yesterday. Hopefully we can get a website and everything up and running by January 1st. So people can be in tune with what’s going on and build out a database of communication and updates on everything. So I know that’s quite a bit out, but if you liked me that much you can hang on.

Jack: My wife and I are very happy to make a $15,000 donation to your church. It’s 10% of what we’re going to make off of that property. It just seemed like the right number and I wouldn’t be surprised if that number goes up once we determine what your needs are and how other people engage in and donate and step up, but we are thrilled to be a part of it that the whole experience of getting it off the ground. So proud of you, man. The friendship relationship and all your 29 year old wisdom. 

Micah: Oh, and last thing is I am your kid’s godfather and now that I’m moving. So I am if you guys want to refer to me as Jack’s friend you can just call me the Godfather. 

Jack: Oh my God. Hopefully that part gets edited out. 

Micah: They said they did say that. I think they did say that I’m holding.

Jack: I’m texting Jessica, my editor right now. She’s cutting that out. 

Micah: Do not let him say he’s the godfather.

Jack: All right. Thanks everybody for joining us today Micah. Thank you so much. Have a great day everybody.

That’s a wrap for this episode on the Indestructible wealth podcast. Before we part ways, I want to help you to take advantage of 2 incredible tax saving strategies that could help you save a lot of money.  All you have to do is leave me a 5 star review – if I’ve earned it – and comment in iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you tune in. After you’ve done that simple step, just email me a screenshot to [email protected] and I’ll send you everything you need to save money on your taxes for years to come.  If you’d like to dive deeper into your own wealth building strategy, check us out at and follow along on social media. Also, please share this podcast with anyone who’s looking for guidance on their own wealth building journey. Until next time, remember our mission here is to help you make, keep, and grow wealth you can enjoy now, and for years to come.


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