We’ve all experienced difficult leaders, and hopefully, you’ve been able to enjoy incredible leadership as well.  So, what kind of leader are you?  Tune in to hear about the leadership revelations that changed the way I do business.

About Indestructible Wealth: I’m Jack Gibson. I’m your wealth strategist and I’m here to help you make some money. The Indestructible Wealth Podcast is for young entrepreneurs who want to make, keep and grow wealth to enjoy now, and for years to come.

Episode #34 – The Leadership Lesson that Changed My Life


Welcome to the Indestructible Wealth Podcast. This is the place where we help young entrepreneurs to make, keep, and grow wealth that you can enjoy now, and for years to come.  I’m your host Jack Gibson, a serial entrepreneur, founder of multiple seven and eight figure businesses, and wealth building strategist.  Each week I’m going to share my tips, resources and secrets, to help you create a plan and build the life you’ve dreamed of. 

All right. Welcome back to indestructible wealth. Super excited again to be here with you guys. And last night, oh man we took our kids to the county fair and to the demolition Derby. Now, if you’ve never done a demolition Derby or something along those lines you’re truly missing out on a unique experience.  So our boys were loving it, but Kara and I, we’re like getting sprayed with mud. It’s just super loud. Wow. Very interesting crowd to say the least. I don’t quite know if we fit in well, but we embraced it and we embraced the whole county fair experience, with all the treats that was one cheat day I’m going to take usually per year where it’s just a massive fail intentionally. Do you guys like fair food? How do you not love it? You got the steak tips. There’s a huge long line every year. We do the fries. You got the elephant ear. You got the big lemonade, freshly squeezed. You got the kettle corn. I did it all. I’m not going to lie. I paid the price after, but it was worth the price. The promise was worth the price. Let me tell you, just make sure that you’re sticking to your plans and you’re sticking to your disciplines, but every now and then it’s okay to splurge a little bit.

All right. So today I’m going to talk to you guys about 5 levels of leadership. That’s changed my life. I’m looking at the book right now. It’s by John Maxwell called the 5 levels of leadership and then the date is November 17th, 2012. I can’t believe it’s been almost 9 years ago Brad Harris one of my mentors gave me this book and it was really life-changing so although this is a wealth creation and finance and investing show, it’s also entrepreneurial-ism and along with that, I believe that in entrepreneurial-ism in order to earn the most that you’re capable of earning leadership development is crucial.   leaders get the pay you guys and all great leaders are readers and I know somebody like, oh man, I don’t like to read. I like to listen, that’s fine too. Like your learners, all leaders are learners. 

Before I dive into this book, I do want to say, if you’re getting value out of this podcast, there’s a couple of things that you can do for a proper value exchange. And this is the only way that it should work, share it, like it, comment, engage 5-star review. If you’re getting value, like you come away with from an episode you’re like, man, that was insightful. That really was helpful. That gave me a whole new perspective. I learned about a new investment strategy. I learned about a new way of thinking and being any of that. Please share the podcast. That’s the only way that this is going to grow and for me to reach more people, I’m not doing this podcast for money. I don’t have any problem with anybody that does I’m in fact, I will monetize this platform at some point, but this is not the goa the overriding goal is to make a difference for other people’s lives and to mentor younger men and women, how to become more successful in life and in business and in finances. So that’s the way the game I think of life should be played. If there’s value exchanged then the value should be rewarded. So reward me with some shared engagement. There’s nobody that I haven’t responded to that I’m aware of that has asked a question on the platform or on my Instagram account or if you have any engagement in any part of my platform, I will absolutely respond that’s what I’m here to do is to help serve you. 

Let’s dive into the five levels of leadership. This was incredibly impactful. I remember I was really struggling in business at this time. In 2012, I wasn’t getting any traction. I wasn’t growing. I was very disillusioned I was very discontented. I was knowing that I had a lot more potential, but I seemed to be stuck. I seem flat and I met Brad Harris, who is on my podcast. He did the leadership gold podcast somewhere in the episode 20s, and it was really life changing. So I wanted to share that lesson with you. 

So I’m going to go through the 5 levels. And the 1st level of leadership is called positional leadership. This is where you have rights and the main theme here is that people follow you because they have to. Now think about, who do you see as a level 1 leader in your life? I’m sure that in your organization a part of your teams or in your company or in your job that I’m sure that you could recognize this right away when we describe them. Position, this is the lowest level of leadership. So people follow because they have to. So this is based on the rights granted by the position and the title. Now, nothing is wrong with having a leadership position but everything is wrong with using your position to get people to follow you. Position is a very poor substitute for influence. So people who make it to level 1, they’re probably bosses. They have subordinates. They don’t have team members. They rely on rules, regulations, policies or charge to control their people. And the only reason that anybody will do anything is because it’s required. So as positional leaders, they have trouble working with volunteers with the younger people, with the higher educated, because these people usually tend to be more independent. So I think that where I was stuck, I was stuck as a level 1 leader, even though I thought I was a level 3 or level 4 leader because I skipped this step. And this is really what was transformational for me is that in order to move up the levels of leadership then you need to be thinking about and embracing each one and mastering each level before you’re able to move up. So this was the level that I skipped called level 2 permission. This is based on relationships. So on this level, people are giving you permission to lead them. They follow you because they want to. When you like people and you treat them like individuals who have value, you begin to develop, influence you develop trust the environment becomes a lot more positive. 

So the agenda for leaders on level 2 is it is a lot different than level 1. They’re not there at level 2 to preserve their position. A true level 2 leader takes time to get to know their people, figuring out how to get along with them. They find out who their people really are and build solid lasting relationships. And this is where I was skipping this level to go to level 3, which is production or the results. I was a very production and results oriented leader. And probably to this day, I still am I think, to a certain extent I’ve value results. I value hard work and I value high levels of effort. I don’t really have much time or energy or care to devote to people that are putting their everything into whatever they’re doing. I feel that’s lack discipline, laziness. I don’t have any room for that in my life and in my businesses. 

The one of the sayings on level 2 is you can like people without leading them, but you cannot lead people well without liking them. And I was in this stage when I was skipping over this level, I was so focused on the numbers of production that I was doing that I’m like, why are you guys not doing this? Why are you not following? Why are you not growing? Why are you not? Because they didn’t think that I really cared. So one of the things Brad said is like, Here’s what you got to do, Jack you may not be getting along with this person or this person and your team, but throw all that out and just send them a message and tell them how much you care about them, how much you believe in them and how proud you are of them. And you don’t have to do all of those in one message, but start reaching out proactively and turn yourself into the chief encouraging officer instead of where you think you are as the chief executive officer, that’s where the real deal with the CEO. I’ve embraced it. It’s the chief encouraging officer. And I know I have to get better at this. I don’t know anybody who works with me is probably like you don’t lay enough praise on. I’m sure I don’t. I’m better than where I was 8 years ago or 9 years ago on November 17th, this pivotal crucial conversation. I’m 100% clear I’m 500% to 1000% better than where I was then. 

One of the dangers, getting to the permission level is that you can be tempted to stop there. But good leaders don’t just create a pleasant working environment. They get shit done, they get shit done. That’s why, you’ve got to move up to level 3, which is based on results. I love that word. That’s probably one of my favorite words. I love results. I love it when I went to James Ray seminar back. Oh man. 20 years ago. And he was on my podcast. The business of redemption the title is from 20 million debt and darkness:  Meet the comeback king. I don’t know if you haven’t listened to that episode, man. Wow. That was a super incredible interview from a man who was on the stages of Oprah Winfrey to the darkest solitary confinement prison hole that you can possibly conjure up. So he said, one of the things he said is that. No results do not equal results, plus a good story, right? So it’s either results or there’s results or there’s no results, but you can’t say I didn’t get this result because of this or this, the good story. It doesn’t produce results for you. 

So on level 3, you don’t have a good story. You don’t have any excuses, you produce results. And that will create influence and credibility and people begin following you because of what you’ve done for the organization. Many great things happen for people when they get to level 3, more work gets done, morale improves, profits go up and in a business profitability unless you’re a charitable organization profitability is absolutely paramount. You cannot sustain an unprofitable or even low profitability business for too long. Even if it’s in your passion zone, you’re going to get burned out. You’re going to start questioning what you’re doing. Everybody needs to generate profits to sustain an organization. Turnover goes down, more goals are achieved. 

So when you hit this leading and influence others becomes a lot more fun. As legendary NFL quarterback, Joe Namath, said when you’re winning nothing hurts. That’s so true. Winning solves so much for me. I can tell you that. 

So this then leads to level 4. You start reproducing results, right? Level 4 is called people development. Leaders become great not because of their power, but because of their ability to empower others. That’s where that’s the main goal of this platform. To be honest it’s not the profitability of the platform although I do absolutely need to start generating some revenue to build a platform at this level of what I’m doing with all the things that go into it and it, you would be really surprised how many things like really add up to build a platform like what I’m building, but I do need to generate revenue, I do need to generate profits to be able to sustain this. But that’s not the main goal. The main goal is to develop other human beings. Leaders become great because they hit level 4. They use their position at level 1. They use their relationships at level 2 and they use their productivity at level 3 to invest into their followers. The people that they’re leading to develop them until those followers become leaders in their own right. So the result of level 4 is reproduction. And now this is where you’re able to reach thousands of people, some directly through your message, through your direct influence. And then you multiply yourself exponentially because you’re reaching people with your message, with your philosophy through the leadership of other people reaching more people. Whatever religion that you follow is great. I embrace everybody on this platform. This is not a specific ideology in terms of religion. I think there’s certainly one everybody to feel comfortable being on this platform no matter what those beliefs are. But if you look at Jesus Christ as an example, he developed 12 leaders, right? Really 11, right? Started with 12 went down to 11 and then even out of that, there was only a what? 2 or 3 that were really most instrumental in passing the Christian message along and look, 1 leader who reproduced himself into other people who duplicated himself into other people now has millions and millions of people around the globe that have been reached by that philosophy and by that message. Production can win games, but people development wins championships. Ah, love it.

So there’s 2 things that always happen when you reach or someone reaches a level 4 level of leadership. First teamwork goes to a very high level. Why? The high investment of people deepens relationships helps people to know one another better and strengthens loyalty. Second per performance absolutely increases even to a higher level. Why? There’s more leaders on the team and they helped to improve everybody’s performance. So if you really want to have a business or an investment that has true passive income where you really don’t have to be involved in day-to-day operations and you don’t have to be sucked into the day-to-day grind, then the only way for that to happen is that there has to be a leader running the show. I think about my favorite investment self-storage. I love self-storage because it’s such a passive investment for me, but why? Because the leadership team that’s running the limited partnership fund that I’m invested into, that’s going out and looking at a hundred deals only finding one that works that’s renovating the abandoned K marts, turning them into these incredible cash flow producing storage lockers, that’s got the connections to sell the fund, the storage units out to these big hedge funds and retirement funds and creating these huge exits very profitable exits at the end. 

Guys, there’s a leadership team in place. There’s great leaders that are running and that operation, I’m not that guy. I’m investing into the leadership team that’s running that operation. So level 4 leaders change the lives of people that they lead. Now, how has that storage unit team not glamorous? And if I say that, you’re like, wow, That’s not glamorous by any stretch. They’re changing my life because they’re giving me the ability to create passive income so that I can stay focused on doing what my zone of genius is, what I’m great at and that is pouring into other people teaching finance, teaching relationships, teaching about leadership development, pouring in, empowering. I’m trying to work on that level 4, people development right here on indestructible wealth. 

And then that leads to level 5, the pinnacle and this is where very few people reach. And I don’t know that I’ll ever reach this in my lifetime. I’m going to strive to do it. If you think about level 5 pinnacle leaders who comes to mind for me, Jim Rohn comes to mind because this is the highest and most difficult level. It requires a high level of talent but not only that, but effort, skill, intentionality, and only naturally gifted leaders really ever make it to this high level. What do the people do on level 5? Will they develop people to become level 4 leaders?

 If people are respectful, they’re pleasant, they’re productive, they can establish a degree of influence with others and gain followers with relative ease. Now there’s never really anything easy about leadership, but developing followers to lead on their own is very difficult. It takes so much more work and. Developing leaders to the point where they’re able and willing to develop other leaders is certainly the most difficult task of all, but this is where you create a legacy. So I don’t know who you really ultimately want to be. I can tell you this, you really want to start thinking about where you are on these 5 levels of leadership right now? What caused me to hit me to record this podcast one of my teammates sent me a text. She’s like, hey is this person or that I’m working with, are they a level 1 leader? And I’m like, oh, hell yeah, they are 100%. That’s pretty obvious. There’s no relationship. There’s very little productivity. Certainly hasn’t developed anybody as a leader, maybe could take credit for that but that’s never been the case. Somebody else developed them as a leader. So that leader is stuck at level 1 and probably always will be until they really embrace the fact and become self-aware that they really need to grow. So part of this exercise is to start thinking about yourself. Where do you fall? And it can also vary in terms of looking at different people. Like where do you fall in line with certain people in your life? Now there’s certain people that I am probably there’s a handful that I would say I’m close to a level 5 leader, close to very few. Maybe I could count 5. Maybe, and they might even say that, I don’t know. That’s just the way it’s occurring to me as I talk this through, I’ve helped some people to develop their leadership so that they become leaders of others. So it’s probably more like a level 4. The level 5 is just you just show up and it’s who you are and who you’ve become that really makes all the difference in the world.

I know that there’s people though that I have a level 1 style of leadership with because they didn’t like what I had to say when maybe things didn’t go their way and I responded and they responded in a certain way and then I responded in a certain way and said don’t respond that way and so now we don’t have any relationship. They don’t really care about the production that I’ve done. I’m back to a stage 1 leader with that person. And that’s going to happen. That’s okay. I’ll embrace that. I always do the very best that I can and then with everybody that I’m leading and then let the pieces fall where they may.

So think about this. Where do you overall think on these stages and then where are you at with individual people? Just to start thinking through people. Maybe as you’re driving and listening to this, start thinking through people in your life like which level am I at with them? Am I level 1, am I just a positional leader with them? Or maybe I’m a level 4. I’ve really helped them to develop their leadership to where they’re developing other leaders as well. So I hope this helps you guys. I want you to crank out some real value for you guys before probably off for the next 4 or 5 days, taking the family to Ohio to visit my parents, has been a long time since we spent some time with them a couple of years pre COVID and so super excited for that. And then going on a fishing trip as soon as I get back Buddy and I are taking our kids out for a one last hurrah before school starts. So it’s going to be a few days. I wanted to crank out some value. I hope this made a difference for you. You guys appreciate so much the kind words that you guys are sharing on social media. Some of the texts that I’ve received about the podcast, man do I really value that kind of feedback and that encouragement? That’s the fuel and the energy I need to keep me going.

So love you all have a great weekend or a great day. That is we’ll see you guys on the next episode.

That’s a wrap for this episode on the Indestructible wealth podcast. Before we part ways, I want to help you to take advantage of 2 incredible tax saving strategies that could help you save a lot of money.  All you have to do is leave me a 5 star review – if I’ve earned it – and comment in iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, or wherever you tune in. After you’ve done that simple step, just email me a screenshot to [email protected] and I’ll send you everything you need to save money on your taxes for years to come.  If you’d like to dive deeper into your own wealth building strategy, check us out at myindestructiblewealth.com and follow along on social media. Also, please share this podcast with anyone who’s looking for guidance on their own wealth building journey. Until next time, remember our mission here is to help you make, keep, and grow wealth you can enjoy now, and for years to come.


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