Jack talks with Paster Mike Schoeplein about religion, faith, and wealth.
About Indestructible Wealth: I’m Jack Gibson. I’m your wealth strategist and I’m here to help you make some money. The Indestructible Wealth Podcast is for young entrepreneurs who want to make, keep and grow wealth to enjoy now, and for years to come.
Episode #9 – Does God Want You To Be Rich? Featuring Special Guest Pastor Mike Schoeplein
Welcome to the Indestructible Wealth Podcast. This is the place where we help young entrepreneurs to make keep and grow wealth that you can enjoy now and for years to come. I’m your host Jack Gibson, a senior or serial entrepreneur, founder of multiple seven and eight figure of businesses, and wealth building strategies. Each week I’m going to share you my tips, resources and secrets, to help you create a plan and build the life you’ve dreamed of.
Jack: All right. Welcome everybody. Excited to have Pastor Mike joined me, Pastor Mike Thank you so much for being on the show. Appreciate your time and your wisdom and your expertise.
Pastor Mike: Great to be with you.
Jack: All right. So let’s start off. Just tell us a little bit about yourself what did you do before becoming a pastor and then your background in business and I know you were a successful entrepreneur and then what led you to becoming a pastor and tell us the good, give us the goods.
Pastor Mike: The goods. Wow. Depends. How far back you go as to how dirty it gets
Jack: Right. I believe that
Pastor Mike: I think I was in a secular college and I was raised in particular I’ll call it a religion. It wasn’t a relationship with the Lord and it just totally turned me off and so I was kind of in secular college doing my thing the party thing all that and a second year in college really just kind of came to an end of go in that direction there’s got to be more to life than that and it caused a hunger on the inside of me. So I just began to search and just through that course, really had an encounter with the Lord of my life. I’m going to talk about some audible or just a realizing looking around at my friends I think God opened my eyes to I was just looking around at my friends. Some of them were professional college students. So about every three years they change majors because as long as they were in college, your parents paid for everything. So I have friends that were in college for 12 years and to shift majors and I just began to look and just say wow there’s got to be more. And so kind of a soul searching time and came to a relationship with the Lord very different than the way I was raised. I was kind of raised where I had a view of God and he was trying to shove me into a box. I was pretty wild pretty probably extreme sports that kind of a person raised in Huntington Beach. So I was heavily into surfing volleyball that kind of stuff and I Had a view of God that he was really not into that kind of stuff and more stiff and I just couldn’t fit into that box.
And when I realized that I had a wrong image it wasn’t an accurate image of who he was. He was just trying to get the stuff out of my life. That was killing me. And that was the turnaround. So I came into a relationship with the Lord and graduated college then went off to Bible College.
And when I was getting ready to graduate Bible college my dad was always raised I was raised in a home that my dad was an entrepreneur my whole life. And so being in business was just like walking it was just that’s just what you do.
Jack: What does your father do?
Pastor Mike: well in Huntington Beach where we live he owned six donut shops.
Jack: Oh yeah.
Pastor Mike: So I can spot a nasty doughnut from a hundred yards, Jack you would probably say they’re all nasty.
Jack: I like a donut every now and then just cause I’m in the health business, come on.
Pastor Mike: Ok I’ll have a donut and slam a shake.
Jack: Alright that works.
Pastor Mike: So then trying to do the course my family moved to Texas and my dad started contracting who was a contractor there. And so then he was a contractor and I got married and I went to Bible College in my last year of Bible College I knew the Lord wanted me to go to San Diego. That’s a good place for him to want you to go
Jack: Right. I mean get called to the nicest climates and most prosperous cities in America. I think that’s probably a good calling.
Pastor Mike: I went there and I equally knew that he wanted me to start a business. And so that’s what I did. I started a business contracting. And just through that but I was always involved in ministry always had a heart for ministry but I equally, I never wanted my children to grow up and say yeah we had a hard time because my dad answered the call of ministry.
And so I always wanted to, so I always did ministry but my livelihood was paid for by the business side of things. And so I had raised up a team that could run the business and I was actively involved in ministry but also business so both. And so we had been involved with the ministry there for 17 years pioneered a church those types of things.
And then did contracting but then kind of branched off got into real estate and purchasing homes and rentals and things like that. And in Southern California that time if you bought at the right time you could do very well.
Jack: I was going to say did you catch it at the right time?
Pastor Mike: Yeah. Yeah.
Jack: Yeah, what year? What year span was that?
Pastor Mike: Started buying in California in 85 and then bought all the way up to and there were some cycles in there.
Pastor Mike: But it we’re just I call it the grace of God on, on my life to be able to direct me as to the right times to buy. So did well and you just buy stuff with oversize lots and build another house on them and different things like that. And so that’s kind of the course of what we did and always had a heart for ministry. And so through the course of events obviously I’m in Michigan now and I always had a heart for ministry California’s a really tough environment to bring up a family or kids in particular in everything gets pumped out of Hollywood. And it’s just a very, very tough environment. So we always had our kids in a private Christian school, but when they start getting up into the high school just crazy environment and I was grateful the Lord led us to and we’ve been here now in St. Joe for nearly 20 years we’ve been pastoring here. So we, I had a business and sold that was actually just back there a month ago and the guy I sold it to is getting ready to sell it again. And so sold that and then just various real estate holdings liquidated all of that relocated to Michigan and been here now for 20 years and when we first moved here, we were like, this place is cheap compared to California.
Jack: It was real estate comparative like 80% off, 70% off California pricing half off.
Pastor Mike: It depends if you go over on Lake Michigan.
Pastor Mike: If you’re on Lake Michigan I would say on Lake Michigan is about half the price of being on the ocean in California.
Pastor Mike: But when you move away from that are probably talking 25%.
Pastor Mike: About 20 to 25%.
Pastor Mike: And so,
Jack: And you get a lot more land and house for your money.
Pastor Mike: Oh my Gosh. I had somebody coming, friends come and they stay and they’re like, yeah, but I was like this, we caused in California.
Pastor Mike: That’s why I’m out of there.
Jack: Right. So you did really well in real estate and it sounds like the Lord blessed you financially. And I think that and the main reason that I wanted you to come on is my belief and what I see with a lot of people that I mentor and just in a lot of books that I’ve read is that people can almost sabotage themselves in a way when they start to see some success and see some money coming in. Lots of reasons for that right, a lot of that has to do with the beliefs that they were raised in that maybe having money was evil or that all rich people are evil, the money, a lot of the movies in fact some of the top 10 grossing movies of all time have portrayed a rich evil villain. So I think that there’s this struggle for people to almost feel guilty too when they start doing well in business and so, what is God really say about the role of money in our lives? And does he want us to be wealthy? Tell us about that.
Pastor Mike: Well, I think when you talk about God’s desire for our life is number one his desire is for us to be whole, for us to be healthy. Money doesn’t do anything other than reveal who we are. It reveals what we are on the inside.
Pastor Mike: And it doesn’t take, I mean, a guy can have a nickel and you can tell a guy can have $5,000,000 and you can tell it’s what we are on the inside in God is interested. First, number one is I mean the Bible is full of passages where God he desires to bless us. He actually says that he wants to bless us so that we can be a blessing to somebody else and so you can’t be a blessing to somebody else if you’re always in need.
Pastor Mike: And he talked about in Psalms 37 He said I take pleasure in the prosperity of my servants. God is like huge into Deuteronomy 28 he talks about literally blessing every area of our life he desires and if you actually really drill down what you see is that God is into making us whole or healthy. He wants us to be healthy. And then he wants to bless our lives to a degree that our wealth doesn’t mess with our head, it doesn’t mess with our heart, but we’re whole healthy people. And then he puts us out there in the world as a contrast to the world and basically the world says wealth is what makes you happy but God says excuse me, but wealth is the icing on the cake.
Pastor Mike: It’s not the cake.
Pastor Mike: And so if we allow God to bake the cake on the inside there’s a passage in the Bible in third John verse 2, and God said I desire above all things that you prosper and that you’re in health even as your soul prospers. And so we could liken it to this is God wants to bless our life but he’s more interested that we’re healthy because if we’re unhealthy where we’re currently at as he pours out on our life, it will just accentuate who we are on the inside.
Pastor Mike: And so I think in our life it reminds me of a story, Micha my son.
Jack: Of course.
Pastor Mike: He’s acharacter.
Jack: He’s character. He is the most trash-talking pastor I’ve ever met in my life.
Pastor Mike: Yes. Yeah.
Pastor Mike: That’s a good title.
Jack: In a great way. In a great way.
Pastor Mike: Yeah in a great way. But when he was like I want to say he was probably three or four years old is we lived on this corner lot about a quarter mile from the beach and he was totally into motorcycles, run around and make the noises and all that kind of stuff. And one day I wasn’t, I was gone and we have a role we had a role open gate that went across our driveway and he had managed to get outside the gate.
Jack: Of course.
Pastor Mike: and across the street was a neighbor that drove in 1100 cafe ninja. He was on it. He was up on it and was making the noise [makes engine noise]. And his mom came out and found him.
Jack: Oh boy. I can picture it.
Pastor Mike: Yeah. You and I would look at him and we would in our mind say there’s no way you can handle that. Let’s start in with you don’t know your rights but he’s graduated to a Honda 50 rock. That’s right now, the scooter. But I think sometimes in our lives God loves us deeply cares about us and we say God, I’m ready for the 1100 ninja and God’s like, excuse me but you’re even in a hard time on a trike right now. And if I let you ride that ninja or even this you can push and sacrifice everything to get that ninja. But it’s going to destroy you because you can’t handle it.
Pastor Mike: And I think in my life when I was younger in my 20’s in business the Lord really gave me the opportunity to meet some people that to have clients like Janet Jackson, Junior Seau some people that had incredibly deep pockets. I had one client that was a billionaire and mind you this is in the 90’s another client that was retired, 42 43 just lived on the beach in LA Jolla just there was never a, there was never going to be any lack but they were the most miserable people I ever met.
Jack: I remember when you said that we have lunch a few months back and you said, I have known billionaires and they’re just miserable it’s just doesn’t it doesn’t really make sense like that’s not most people’s view of people that have most amounts of wealth, like how, how are they miserable? Right. What, what happened? What went wrong?
Pastor Mike: Well, they couldn’t if money does it and if wealth does it which God is for us but he’s doesn’t want to put us on the 1100 ninja. The Bible says that when we’re faithful in the small things he entrusts us with more. So God blesses us and then he watches how does it affect our head? How does it affect our heart? How does it affect how we look at other people, treat other people? How am I a giver? Am I live in debt? Where everything I get it no matter what, I’ve had clients that were writers, And writers I like them to gamblers they have a book that they sell a million copies and they got a paycheck that year of 5 or $10,000,000 and their next book is a bomb.
Pastor Mike: And they’ve created now a lifestyle.
Jack: Yeah. And they can’t sustain.
Pastor Mike: A 5 to $10,000,000 a year and before they had that book they lived fine off of $50 or a $100 whatever that was. And so I think the big thing in our life is that a relationship with the Lord is what causes us to be whole and to be healthy. And then we bring that to wherever we go and so then what happens is it just accentuates who we are. It doesn’t make us, if money made people happy then the happiest people in the world should be the people in Hollywood. And if you look at Hollywood they’re the most miserable drug addict, overdosed, suicidal I mean I don’t know if you’ve ever been down sunset strip those places down there they’re absolutely miserable.
And so you have to look at that and say, okay, maybe in my perspective of wealth is what the problem is. And I think all of us really have to define what is, what is wealth or maybe the word prosperity what does that look like to me? And we really have to put verbiage to it in our life and then check ourselves to stop in to say are these my values kind of a thing? Because the world is pumping us every day and saying that money will make you happy. No, it’ll just accentuate who you are. That’s all, that’s all it will do. And that God loves us, he cares about us, he wants to bless every area of our life but what he wants us to do is to have an accurate grasp and say Jack I’m sure you’ve seen people that have money that think that it’s going to make them whole and what I have noticed is they get more and more miserable and the reason if their values aren’t right, and the reason is because now they can afford to go buy the new Honda jet, now they can afford to go buy the new Learjet now they can afford to get the place in Bali, now they can afford to get all these things in their whole life they were told that when you have these things those things will make you happy. No things don’t make us happy we bring happiness to things.
Pastor Mike: And when I can bring happiness to things all of the things just accentuate who I am. I don’t know if that makes sense.
Jack: No, it definitely makes sense you talk about the unhealthy ways that money can affect people. And so therefore you’re essentially, you’re saying that we don’t don’t have the capacity to be able to truly handle more that’s given to them so God’s looking out for them and saying, well I want to bless you I want to make your life more abundant but if I give you this then it’s going to lead to your own self destruction so I’m not, I’m not going to allow you to, to create this successful business or to create this massively successful investment and turn a sum of money parabolic. So what is it, how do people grow in there capacity so that they can be able to be, I know it’s a process right? At this stage it takes time right? It’s not going to happen overnight but what’s that growth journey process look like to increase your capacity so that you can handle more and you can do it in a way that you are going to be a blessing to yourself, your family, your community, and everybody around you.
Pastor Mike: Great question. Great question. I think it’s to, I think the key is am I healthy where I’m at right now
Jack: So being grateful for what you have right now in the present?
Pastor Mike: Well, just healthy right now. Right now if what’s on my plate, am I stressed out? Am I upset? Do a bark at everybody?
Jack: Am I jealous?
Pastor Mike: Yeah. Am I just, am I healthy on the inside right now? Or because all it’s going to do is accentuate that. So if you were, if you were to look and say, you use the word jealous or greedy.
Jack: Yeah. Greedy
Pastor Mike: Is it, can I right. Am I right now a generous soul? Am I right now a joyful person? Am I right now a forgiving person? Am I right now healthy on the inside?
Jack: You mean healthy physically? You’re you mean healthy spiritually and emotionally on the inside?
Pastor Mike: Yeah, in your heart, in your heart is healthy.
Pastor Mike: Yeah. My thinking, my believing, my reasoning, all of these things am I if I’m blaming everybody else for where I’m at, I’m not healthy. If I believe right now that I’ve been dealt an unfair hand then I’m not healthy. If I believe that the pie is only so big and that if somebody else gets a bigger slice that’s part of my pie, excuse me, God is the baker of lots of pies and can I celebrate with somebody else when they’re blessed or am I jealous? Am I comparative?
Pastor Mike: All of those types of things. I mean, how are you right now? How do I sleep at night? Right now, do I have a good deep sleep or am I tossing and turning anxious, worried all of that kind of stuff right now. Am I, I mean when you talk about healthy and just throw this out there, but physically, physically I mean yes on the inside, but equally, Hey, You know, this thing’s got to last.
Jack: That’s your temple.
Pastor Mike: Yeah. You got to, if you don’t take care of it man if you’re living off bacon cheeseburgers and you look like a bacon cheeseburger then you had to stop and say I’m not healthy. It rolls back to the inside thing. This is a self-control issue where I have to stop. And maybe right now, am I healthy where I I know when to say no. If you’re married Gosh, and we, we know we’ve been married and marriages are always growing and you’re facing challenges and all of those things, but am I healthy there? Am I healthy because if I’m not then there’s a high likelihood that as I begin to experience a greater amount of wealth, I’m going to try to escape the things that I need to grow in, in exchange for what’s making me feel good. And we all know that chasing what makes you feel good is not necessarily what we need.
Jack: Not necessarily what’s best for us in our long-term sustainable financial journey, right. And life journey. What are some of the financial traps that you see people fall into pastor Mike and how can they potentially avoid some of the decisions that you see where you’re like scratching your head, like, why did you do that? And I’m sure that you’d give advice and people take it all the time or is it that everything you say, they just immediately walk out the door of the church and say I’m all in, I’m doing it, and they implement it.
Pastor Mike: Yeah. Yeah. What planet are we on? Yeah. I think when you talk about finances, I think it’s important to know yourself well. Everybody’s wound differently in the way that they are. And I’m just going to give you a great example some people are wound emotional and impulsive in so that if they’re assessing the financial situation they can tend to get emotional and impulsive and it clouds them from making a good choice. And so to me that is having people in your life. Before I got a couple pastor buddies of mine and we’re all self-aware where it’s really good to be self-aware, it’s really hard to find people that are self-aware and most people are not self-aware and they see it.
Jack: Or you can make fun of yourself and you can actually laugh.
Pastor Mike: Yeah, it’s awesome. But it’s the ability to stop and to know yourself and equally to look into yourself. I think that we set up I’ll call it Guardrails in our life where we look and we know ourselves and we’re like, Hey, I have this propensity and if you’re married, it’s good to have a discussion with your wife where maybe you like to invest in various things and do various things where you have your wife. And it’s like, hey, babe, let me just talk to you about my creative juices, I’m not going to risk our family but I would like to have an X amount of dollars here to invest in.
Jack: Alright. So you’re giving me permission to go play high stakes poker with my buddies because I’m doing it responsibly with only a small percentage of our overall pie.
Pastor Mike: Equally is I’m giving you permission to do crack.
Jack: All right. Wow. You just there.
Pastor Mike: I didn’t, I didn’t say poker. I said an investment.
Jack: Oh, oh, well that is, for me that is an investment because I typically win about 70% of it.
Pastor Mike: Let me just say this. Jack it’s an investment in that earlier thing that I said about know yourself and know if you’re given too impulsive all of those types of things. So you just want to know yourself.
Jack: Yeah, absolutely agree with that. You got to do it, whatever you’re going to do, you have to be able to know and put checks and balances on yourself.
Pastor Mike: You do. And if you don’t when I was younger, I was way more impulsive I was like, we can talk ourself into anything. You can, I’m a Pastor, but I can manipulate the voice of God in my own life in reason myself long enough to do what I want to do. And then when it collapses there’s a scripture in Proverbs it says that the foolishness of man subverts his way and ruins his affairs and that his heart is resentful in blames of the Lord.
Pastor Mike: How many times have you seen people that it was like that wasn’t God, that was your dumb decisions.
Jack: You just made a stupid decision. God had Nothing to do with that one.
Pastor Mike: Not in blaming him. Don’t be blaming him. So I think in our lives when you talk about God I mean it’s really important I think an accurate perception, you mentioned earlier evil money kind of in the intro, you talked about evil, a perspective of that when people say things and they quote, or they misquote scriptures, I’m like where the apostle Paul wrote Timothy who was the pastor of the church. And he said, the love of money is the root of all evil. So he didn’t say money. He said an unhealthy relationship with the material round.
Jack: And that’s, that gets construed, right. That gets twisted and turn to money’s the root of all evil. They leave off the part Love of money is the root of all evil.
Pastor Mike: Yeah, they, they just kind of hit a lot of this. Sometimes if you study church history what has happened is there’s a difference between I’m going to call it religion and a relationship with the Lord. Is religion comes up with rules and regulations and various things that are not Biblical but that sound good. And the whole thing you mentioned evil money or those types of things is that if you go back in history what you will find out is that there are certain religious groups that poverty is deified. Poverty is if you’re poor, you’re pleasing to God and there’s even it’s called the Franciscan order they take a vow of poverty and it’s almost like if you’re poor you please God, there’s no scriptural base for that and actually the root of it if you actually go back into the root of it, it actually back into the dark ages and their pagan religion root system there.
And so that’s why the a lot of times the earlier on the Jews had such a hard time with some of the Christian teachings, because they would say we serve the God of Abraham. Who said that he would bless us going in coming out whatever we put our hand to he would cause it to prosper. He would bless our fields, our herds, our families, he would, they had a belief that God was a good God. He’s you look at him and you read about him in the Bible and he shows up and he’s like, Hey guys, I’ll put it in my terms is like, Hey, I got a lot better way to live. And in my way is I want to bless you as a matter of fact I want to bless you so much that it provokes the world around you to jealousy where they look and they’re like okay you got it, but you’re not funky. You’re not weird. You’re not looking down at people. You’re a giver. You’re healthy. You’re all of those things in the world looks at that and says that is a different model then our system, you’re not only blessed financially but you’re blessed relationally. Your soul is healthy. Your whole, your family is healthy. Your marriage is healthy. Your body is healthy. You have a high level of peace. You don’t carry all of those types of things so they look and they’re like, what is it about you? And I think then it’s just kind of like as I said the prosperity side of it or the material side of it is just the icing on the cake.
Jack: Wow. Okay. So we got to dive into my all-time favorite message. The one that you and pastor Jill did together, where you talk about the top two needs of men and top two needs of a woman, because I do believe that relates to wealth and at the topic that we’re on. Can you tell us a little bit more about this subject and then when you doing the sermon again? Because it’s been a few years and it was your best ever in my humble opinion.
Pastor Mike: What was it? Just say that again.
Jack: Men want respect and that’s their top. Right. And then women want to be loved, right? That one.
Pastor Mike: Yeah.
Pastor Mike: Love and respect. Yeah. Yeah. It’s if you actually study the new Testament what you find is that whenever God talks speaking in the context of men the number one need of a man is respect. It’s a number one need. And so if a man feels respected then his tank is full, his tanks full, but the number one need of a woman is to feel loved. And so whenever you read in the epistles which are really the instruction to the church in the New Testament and God is speaking to men he’s always talking to women about respecting them. And he even does it in a manner. He, he brings up, in a lot of times, when you bring it up with either men or women, both sides, is that when a woman feels loved, it’s much easier for her to respect. And when a man feels respected as much easier and there’s a term and where it’s almost like two oxygen hoses and that the oxygen that men breathe is respect. And so that as long as communication is in that respectful vein the oxygen is flowing to their space suit and to a woman it’s the same. But when there isn’t respect or there isn’t love, then it’s like they’re stepping on the oxygen hose and they’re saying why are you flipping and freaking out? And it’s because I can’t get any air.
Pastor Mike: And so I think that that’s the way that God created us. I think sometimes, when you talk about marriage I’ve been married for 37 years.
Pastor Mike: Is there’s this misnomer about marriage I think it’s this is that if you have to work on your marriage then there’s something wrong with it. But when you read the Bible what you see is if you need to work on your marriage then there’s actually something right with it because every great marriage is consistent application of applying ourselves. And I find this both sides like my wife, Jack, I don’t know about you, but like my feelings I need help. Okay. I’m just like, I want to feel. You know what I’m saying, but it’s just, it’s like man where you get all that stuff, she just feels for everybody and everything and all that kind of stuff.
Jack: Sure. It’s the nurturing side of the female.
Pastor Mike: And I’m like, okay you got to help me because I want to be, but you know what I’m saying? And so she rewires me or on that side but then equally on the logical maybe on all of that side I rewire her. And so we were always under this constant rewiring of each other to make a more whole person.
Jack: I think most women if they’re listening would argue that a man’s top need is something else. Right?
Pastor Mike: A man what?
Jack: A man’s top need is not respect.
Pastor Mike: No, I’m talking physiological. Sex.
Jack: Yes. Yes, men want sex, but that’s number two, right? That’s actually, that’s behind respect.
Pastor Mike: Oh, they’re tied. One of them is physical one of them psychological.
Jack: Oh okay so they’re both out there.
Pastor Mike: One of them is for your inside the other your outside. Yeah.
Jack: Got it. So women, third, they want to be loved and then they also want to be heard. Right. They want to be able to talk and have their partner, listen to them?
Pastor Mike: Key-word partner.
Pastor Mike: Partner. We’re a partner as partners. We talk, you know? Yeah. I think the key word is compassion and sympathy.
Jack: I think that if you look at it from a financial perspective for men this is huge on almost unsatiable desire for respect, not only from our wives, significant others, but also from other people, right. Other men and so when, when entrepreneurs or anybody in general they start to get a hold of some money men will go out and buy the fast expensive car cause they, that is their way of getting being respected. That I’ve arrived. Here you go. I can show it to you. Whereas I can’t show you my bank account realistically, right? Like not socially approved to say, well, on social media here’s my bank statement. But it’s socially acceptable to go out and get the super exotic expensive car and show that off and then for women there they go out and buy the purses, the shoes, the designer clothing right and maybe that’s their way of trying to get love too. So, what are your thoughts on that? Like how we spend money does that tie into those?
Pastor Mike: I mean yes, but I think you’ve got to go back. When you talk about respect there’s a healthy respect and there’s an unhealthy respect.
Pastor Mike: And in an unhealthy respect is trying to get from somebody, something that only God can do in that is significance, purpose that is wellbeing. That is where if, if I don’t feel significant about myself and it feels like I have purpose and there’s a sense of wellbeing even maybe the word I’m whole, I’m healthy. Then what’s going to happen, is my inside going to try to get that from somebody, through a vehicle that is an imitation.
Pastor Mike: It’s not real.
Pastor Mike: And when it’s an imitation. Can I share a story?
Jack: Of course. That’s why you’re on.
Pastor Mike: Okay. A somebody and this is another client of mine that I had in California.
Pastor Mike: And they were gazillion Uber wealthy, 42, 44, retired they had sacrificed everything to get what the world said would make them look successful, would make them be whole would where everybody would kind of sit back and say, oh you got it you’ve arrived.
Pastor Mike: They got it at a young age but they had sacrificed their family together. And now that they had it, they had arrived at a place that they pretty much realized. Wow I’ve been lied to. I’m not whole, as a matter of fact I’m miserable because now I can buy everything that everybody said is going to get me respect and going to make me feel good and the more that I buy the emptier I feel.
Pastor Mike: Solomon in Ecclesiastes talked about this. He said he was the richest man to ever live on the earth. He was so wealthy that they ran out of room for silver. So they just dumped it behind his house. He said that he withheld nothing from his eyes anything he wanted and he talked about, I mean, forests and parks and it took, it took over a 100,000 men 10 years to build his house. He withheld nothing from his eyes and he came to the end of his life and he said this, everything is vanity, it’s all a vapor, it’s all a mist. And he said I’ve come to realize this. He said that, that the only one that brings purpose is having a reverence for God.
In this individual that I’m telling you about he was Jewish and he was just very, very wealthy but now he’s 42, 44 he sacrificed everything, wife and one daughter, sacrificed everything and now he realized it but he’s living in a world that wants to use him. And so now what happened is, is everything he had sacrificed to get he realized that he had a bad trade off. So he was trying to go back and fix what he had lost. And what was really sad is in the material world that we live in, they were just using him. To get the, you know what I’m saying? They were just using it.
Pastor Mike: And so like his daughter’s 18, she wants nothing to do with him but she wants his Ferrari.
Pastor Mike: For the weekend.
Jack: She only talked to him when she wants something.
Pastor Mike: And I want this new thing and I want this and he’s like here, here, here and he’s thinking that it’s going to cause her to want a relationship and she’s using it. I watched him and I would, his first name was Jerry. And Jerry came to the realization realization that he was kind of cursed because now he wanted meaningful relationships. But how do you have a meaning? How do you find somebody that is unaffected by the material world? When you go on it you pick them up in your convertible Bentley to go on a date. Their mind is like, oh, I’m in love with you. Anna Nicole didn’t marry for love. Okay and so he was and I would laugh because he would bring these girls to his house for like breakfast and pull out a box of Grape Nuts and sit down at the table and he’s like trying to figure out are you just chasing me for my stuff?
Jack: Yeah. A tough decision to be in. right? Wow.
Pastor Mike: Yeah and I felt so bad because he was just empty. I don’t know how we went there, so yeah.
Jack: No, it’s great story. So the last subject we’re going to close out with is in terms of finances and God is a charitable giving, blessing others, and tithing.
Pastor Mike: Yeah.
Jack: I remember back about 5 years ago and I was new to your church, maybe a couple of years in and there was this Sunday where I have not yet put my charitable giving my tithing on autopilot right where it was a monthly automatic. So I was, I was giving generously but not every month. And it wasn’t the first time but I remember we were saving up to be able to upgrade our home. We really wanted a new home and I, and I wrote, I just got out my checkbook and I’m like, just be obedient just stay the course, and give, and you’ll be, you’ll figure this out and you’ll figure out how to get your dream home. I thought if I gave and tithed, like I’m going to be putting this off even longer and we won’t ever arrive and get our dream home so I wrote the check. It was pretty big I put it in the offering, my hand was shaking and I put it now we don’t have the offer and go around and we’re just like, COVID it’s all virtual, but put it into the bucket.
And I just said, you know what I’m letting it rip. And that day, I was on the computer and I never look for houses. My wife was always the one that was looking for houses and I was on it for like 10 minutes and I saw the house that we’re in now. I saw it and this is, this had been on our dream list for a couple of years. We said if this house ever goes on the market, we are absolutely getting it and it was on and I caught it just in time. We got our offer in a day before somebody else. I just always think, man I was doing the right thing by staying the course, keeping my tithing and I got blessed and that’s my, that’s my general theory. But what is your, what does God say about, this whole subject? And I know you’ve got a huge amount of wisdom when it comes to this.
Pastor Mike: Well, I’ll give my 2 cents. Money is a reflection of my heart. The Bible says, Jesus said where your treasure is, He can tell where your heart is.
Jack: So where you spend your money shows what’s in your heart?
Pastor Mike: It actually reveals what’s a priority.
Jack: Absolutely. What you love is where we could look at your bank account and all your credit card statements. And we can, we’ll find out what you value.
Pastor Mike: If you’re into horses, you know then horses show up.
Pastor Mike: Finances.
Pastor Mike: You’re inefficient. That vision shows up, it shows up that’s where your heart is. It’s not a legalistic issue. It’s a heart issue. And I think that if you go all the way back to when we first started, it’s an inside thing. If I’m not healthy on the inside and the inside is God you’re first in my life, you’re first. And he said the quickest way he can tell it is by what we do with our money, because it’s connected to our heart. So if I say I love God, but I don’t honor him with my tithe in the word tithe doesn’t mean 10% it means the first tenth. The first, when you get paid usually sometimes people, when you use the term tithe it means 10% but if you actually look at, it means the first 10th, usually whatever you do with the first of your pay reveals your priorities. If the very first thing that you do like even with us and the Bible says that they, it’s not a legalistic thing, it’s a freeing thing because the world’s take on the material realm will destroy people. It just destroys them and putting in recognizing God is my provider and putting him first there cuts the world’s system that tries to drive me and tell me. And it basically says my allegiance is here and this is what I believe.
And so, and we’ve always, me and my wife, you say well you’re a Pastor. Even before I was a pastor, it’s something we got hold of and I would venture to say that in my family, there was my Dad, he had a curse of poverty on his life and what I mean by that is the curse of poverty is not just lack, but it it’s a mindset of just hang on. Hang on to everything. Never let go, no, hang on, hang on. And so he never was free. He was never free. And I looked at that and thought, wow, I didn’t want to live like that. I don’t want to be like that. But it was a personal choice and I just said, God, you’re first in my life and so when you read the Bible and the big thing is God takes faithfulness, you can tell when somebody’s faithful, when somebody’s consistent and somebody’s faithful and they say, Lord, your first, whether I feel like it or not, your first, that is a reflection of their character, which is a reflection of their inside. And that is blessable.
I know a lot of people in our church checked that have just really got hold of that principle and I’m thinking of 2 people in particular that God is just blessed them beyond their wildest dreams. I mean literally beyond their wildest dreams and they basically said to me if you ever want us to talk to somebody about our journey and what God did when we began to put him first in our finances, we will talk with them. And that was kind of a revelation moment to them. And it’s not just they’re givers in their life. They love to give, it’s kind of they love to give, but God has just poured out. And I think we got to get rid of the stingy mentality that God is stingy. He’s not stingy. Read the Bible.
Pastor Mike: It says his streets are paved with gold. That ain’t stingy.
Jack: Yeah. Ever since we started tithing. It’s just mind boggling how we’ve been blessed. I mean our income is triple, our net worth is probably up 20 times. And that despite buying a bigger, much bigger house, buying a Tesla that auto drives, that’s with some really stupid financial decisions that I’ve made and that you and I talked about, and God got me through all of that and he continues to, it’s just incredible. So I definitely can testify to what happens when you, you just stay the course for me, the best thing that’s kept me on track is just simply automating it you and I talked about this at lunch. I was inconsistent. I was, I miss a month, I get a month and I miss a month or two and then I’d do another month and I want it to be to where it was just automatic every month. So I set it up with the online app and just automate it every single month, same date, same amount. It comes out and that’s been incredible so I recommend that to all my listeners. So pastor Mike, thank you so much. I appreciate all your wisdom, our listeners appreciate your wisdom. How can they follow you or where would they go if they’d like to hear more of your message?
Pastor Mike: Roadtolifechurch.com.
Jack: You live stream all your sermons?
Pastor Mike: Every weekend live stream.
Jack: You have a podcast and a livestream?
Pastor Mike: No, I don’t have a podcast.
Jack: Okay. Well, I don’t know if you know, but your team, puts your message out on a podcast. I listen to them when I’m at the gym. There you go.
Pastor Mike: I think it’s huge I don’t know where your listeners are at, but it would be good to get plugged in to a Bible believing God honoring church that they respect the leaders and get plugged in, get plugged in and the Bible talks about being planted in the house of the Lord. He said that we would bring forth fruit in the right season. And so I would just super strongly encourage, you know, it’s kind of like the difference between dating and getting married. You know, it’s like, I got a girlfriend. Okay, great. You know nothing about commitment, you know what I’m saying?
Pastor Mike: And so, yeah. But yeah, I mean there’s podcasts live stream Sunday morning services. Anything we can do to help.
Jack: All right. Thank you so much, Pastor Mike. Appreciate you again. Thank you guys for tuning in and listening. I’ll see you on the next episode of indestructible wealth. Have a great day.
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