About Indestructible Wealth: I’m Jack Gibson. I’m your wealth strategist and I’m here to help you make some money. The Indestructible Wealth Podcast is for young entrepreneurs who want to make, keep and grow wealth to enjoy now, and for years to come.
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.Episode #38 – The Wolf of Queen Street featuring Lawrence Lotz
Welcome to the Indestructible Wealth Podcast. This is the place where we help young entrepreneurs to make, keep, and grow wealth that you can enjoy now, and for years to come. I’m your host Jack Gibson, a serial entrepreneur, founder of multiple seven and eight figure businesses, and wealth building strategist. Each week I’m going to share my tips, resources and secrets, to help you create a plan and build the life you’ve dreamed of.
Jack: All right, everybody. Welcome back to indestructible wealth. Sometimes they do solo episodes as you guys are clear, and then sometimes I get incredible guests on. And today I’ve got a friend of mine, a new friend from New Zealand. He’s a rockstar in the investment game and more so building a huge podcast, actually beating Gary V one week.
So I know I got your attention now. He’s got a super cool accent. I can’t do what he does. So you guys are gonna, you’re gonna love his accent. It’s Lawrence Lotz. His podcast is called the Wolf of Queen street. So welcome to the show. Lawrence, thanks so much for being here.
Lawrence: Thanks Jack. It’s always amazing to be on a podcast on the other side of the table, as I say, it’s sometimes hard when you’re so used to being the person doing the interview.
And someone speaking about you, you gotta sit back and just nod and you blush almost most times when you come onto a show and someone does an introduction. So Jack I’m excited for today.
Jack: Yeah, for sure. My, the pressing question I have on my mind here is what do you got behind? You got any bourbon behind there?
Lawrence: Yeah, I do. I do have some bourbon. I’ve got American honey bourbon. Funny enough. Bourbon’s a big fan of three of my friends. So some of it’s moved inside where we drink to anyone that’s watching on the video at the moment I’m sitting in my man cave. I’ve got the ball behind me and it’s always fully stocked.
Cause it just suits my brand name, which originally started as the Wolf of Queen street. So obviously people are going to go home. It sounds very familiar. The Wolf country. Yes. I knocked off the Wolf of wall street. Not that I was first. I just want there to be that image. I wanted to be Jordan Belfort and that craziness and that success and all that money when I started my brand and about three years ago, Jack.
So our thoughts and our main street in Auckland, New Zealand is called queen streets. I thought it was great. i’m going to ask is queen Street in your country? That must be a big street. So that’s yeah. So that’s the main street in Oakland, in the study, the largest city in New Zealand. And it was that whole vibe that I wanted to put behind this brand of success and money and all that sort of stuff.
That original photo of myself and the brand was in a white suit from Vegas, because you can only wear a white suit in Vegas and everything else. And I thought, yeah, great. This is the way to go. The main cave was part of it and that image. Obviously things change over time.
As life throws you a few curveballs along the way, right?
Jack: Yeah. We’re going to get into that. So what else you got in the man cave? He got a pool table, ping pong, poker table. What he got down there.
Lawrence: So at the moment I’m a big antique and toy collector, full ball that you can’t see at the moment right now, obviously, but all behind me, I’ve got dots over there.
My pool type, I don’t have yet mammon cause we were just about rebuilding. So I have a pool table dots. I’ve got a spicy, so Pac-Man donkey Kong, all of that in the corner and a few other titbits. I’m a big MMA and boxing fan. So I’ve got Connor, McGregor gloves, Manny Pacquiao, Ford, Mayweather, the clouds behind me up on the wall.
And so forth and in the corner. Just on the side of the day, like I said, I’m a big antique and toy collector. So I have all the toys from the 1870s up until the 1980s. I’ve got not to show my age of youngness at some stage, but I still got all my LIGO. I got a whole lot of my Lego sets that I bought as a kid.
My actual set is over 30 years ago. So I’ve got them in cabinets over there.
Jack: Collect collectibles have done really well of late haven’t they and value ink.
Lawrence: Yeah. So as a weird one and as perfect with the show, nothing I’ve bought in my toy or auntie collection, as I love them all, every single one of them, nothing I’ve bought at full retail price.
As part of the antique, I will buy that. Always making sure that there’s value as an investment. My brain is always thinking that way. So I’ll go in and buy a toy at $5, no net. It’s 10 or $12 if I want to sell it tomorrow. So there’s always a potential of that because what I’m hoping for is not that it can be done at the moment, but what I’m hoping is my collection can get a value of an asset value behind it in a handful of years time.
And the bank would allow me to leverage again against that. So that doesn’t exist now. If you have a limited edition vehicle call or something, you might be able to do that powers in, I’m saying specifically in the New Zealand market, I can take my 40 or $50,000 toy collection to the bank and go, Hey, here’s $50,000 as an asset.
I want to leverage it. They won’t do that at the moment, but I’m hoping for the way we move in the market and the world we see at the moment with stuff like digital currency, NFTs and all those other things. Don’t fund enough existing physical things, might be able to take my physical items and actually use that as an asset.
Jack: Yes. That day is, it’s already here, right? It’s or it’s coming very soon. Lawrence, you got an incredible story and you’re going to breathe in me. I knew a bit about it. Lawrence and I, for the audience we met on LinkedIn. That’s kinda my new platform that I’m really attacking to build my brand.
We’re in a pod. It’s kind of like, you guys know BNI in the state’s business network international. It’s kinda like that online group of people that just support each other and engage with each other and try to just make each other feel like our posts and our content is really good.
Even when occasionally it’s not right. So at least I know I could speak for myself. I got to know Lawrence in the pot and listened to some of his podcasts. They are fantastic. And wanted him to come on and share a story. So tell us your backstory. And all the good, the bad, the ugly, all of that.
Lawrence: It’s hard to, yeah. First, go back to the group that we’ve met in it. Yeah. It’s been amazing being part of their group. 21 hours out there on social media and thinking about it, if you can find 10 or 15 like-minded people similar we don’t have to all be the same as Jack is sometimes are we pushing our own logic on our social media posts, if it’s good or bad, but luckily if we’ve got friends that help us out at helps your brands in there as well, but coming back to my story, as you said, Jack, so yeah my origin around the brand and the business, everything was driven three years ago when I started off this brand and the Wolf of Queen Street obviously before that I’d done, investments are, I’m a massive property investor.
Long-term holds cashflow properties. And I’d done investments across that for years and years beforehand and got a bit into the shares and everything else. But at this point in three years ago, I’ve gotten really big into sort of my investment. So there were properties in the one corner.
And if anyone understands wealth or wealth creation, you’ve got obviously a bucket that you want to throw investments in with all different returns. So soft, there could be high risk, 50, 70, 80, 90, a hundred percent, really high risk, a hundred percent. And then you’ve got all the way down to lucky zero in 1%, it’s like gold and solvers and so forth or cash.
And your term deposits. So at this stage three years ago, when I started this brand and saw myself as a successful NetSuite, I wanted to be this brand. I had all these different investments going on. I had property I had company shares. I had ETFs, I had gold silver term deposits. I had digital currency as everyone, everyone had it two, three years ago and looking at other areas as well.
I had passive income. Coming from other areas, but in businesses or courses and so forth. And that it was willing to place, which fit into sort of a bit of my ego going in in 2019, when I started this in March and it would go out a follow a couple of months, I started the brand and I interviewed amazing guests, but it was more than a sentence if I wanted to interview the best CEOs and the topic executives and entrepreneurs across the world, in the America space and in Europe.
And I did all of those for three or four months on the show and I enjoyed it. And I realized while that was happening subtly underneath, it was there. There was not as much. Growth that I’ve thought that comes with the brand or the success with it. And I was wondering why, because I was chasing a bit of an ego with what was going on at that moment.
And funny enough, a lot of us on social media chase that ego gone. Hey, if I stand next to someone that’s really important, people are going to naturally think I’m important and work for all of five seconds. And then people lose interest in that. Sure. But going through this moment is life, as I said, early in the show life gave him, came with a bit of a curve or which had done to a lot of us quite often.
And this was a big curve ball in 2018. The year before I had a very great year, my wife traveled over to America. We go and party in Vegas. As in, when we traveled all over the world, our kids, we came to, it was a year where we pat ourselves on the shoulder and said, Hey, there was a great year.
It was a great year, a successful year. You look back and I’m successful. I’m doing well with that whole put myself on a pedestal. Look at me, whoa. Hands up, we did an amazing thing, and the beginning part of 2019 started, and while the brand was going in, the business was going. I started feeling a little bit out of myself.
I found it a little bit often flat and not sure what was going around. And I said maybe 2018 was too big, maybe 2018. I did too much and everything else. I was obviously getting older. I was getting my mid thirties, put it on a bit of white and I just thought things aren’t right. And I finally, Jack convinced myself as guys, we are horrible at this and I’ll put my hands up and to anyone that’s listening out there at the moment, please take us much. Don’t feel bad at not asking for either help or going to check on something if we feel something’s wrong. So I finally convinced myself to go to my local GP and say, Hey, look here, can you just check me out?
There’s a few things I’m just not really happy about. I just don’t feel that’s the right thing. And yep. They said, okay, we’ll do a couple of tests. We did a few tests through April going into may. And they finally came back to me and to my Jack. And they said, there’s something in your tests. We saw that it shouldn’t be there.
There’s something in your tastes that shouldn’t be seen in males. And I was like, okay, is this something I should have known about as much genetic stuff? You know what’s going on? Yeah. And I said, we want to send you for a test. There’s this common thing that happens when it interferes with MRI.
There’s a common thing that happens if you get a small sort of growth in the back of your head and kind of fix some stuff in your body. And firstly, I find it really weird that a doctor said this was quite common and you have a small growth in the back of your head, but I’ll say that guy let’s do it. Let’s do it.
Jack: Make sure you don’t get too nervous or worried about it.
Lawrence: Yeah. At this stage, everything looks towards this path. So the one hormone that’s picked up at this moment, there’s something called prolactin to any females that are out there at the moment. That is the Homan females produced when they are producing for a baby.
I had the level of three times the level of a pregnant woman in my body. So that’s where they’re like, hold on. That’s not even just a small spike. It’s just through the roof and they couldn’t understand why. So they said to me, go and go and see, go and have an MRI scan and my specialist said, so I got into a specialist here, go and have an MRI scan and I’ll see a week later. So Jack, he says, okay, go in the morning and I’ll see you a week later for the results I say. Okay, awesome. So I go in the morning again. It’s about choosing our Windsor to go with my wife. We’re going first in the morning. It could have been about 9:00 AM.
We’re going to do the MRI, scan, everything else. And an hour later, my specialist calls me and he goes, Lawrence, I don’t want to see you a week later. I want to see you at 9:00 AM tomorrow morning.
Jack: Oh boy.
Lawrence: And at that moment, I still, I get goosebumps every time I say that. Sure. And at that moment, there was a realization that everything, I thought, everything I believed and that’s our new change because no, one’s going to call you and go, Hey, you’ve got to see me immediately when it was the expectation that it’s going to be ok.
So there was a sort of, there was that, that, the golden moment of what’s next. So we went into. The next day into my specialist. And, we said, what’s going on? And she said, Hey, we scanned. And we found something in your head. And my wife made the joke oh you actually have brains.
Unfortunately we found something and it wasn’t something small. You said we found a golf ball sized brain tumor. Yeah. Wow. And he’s also sitting around the pituitary gland, which had wrapped around the pituitary gland, which controls hormones.
She’s one of the reasons my whole mind’s all over the place. And he’s also pushing on your optic nerve. I had not re-recorded the test. I’d lost 30% of my sight at that moment. Cause that was actually just, the darkness has just started to close in on me as it was pushing on the nerve, but it was so slow.
I had no realization this was happening and it was right next to the carotid artery at the backs of the largest artery in the back of the throat. This was just growing right next to that as well. So the spacious hits to me goes, Lawrence, this isn’t something we can wait around this. Isn’t something that you can, wait till six months or 12 months on the part to get sorted.
This is something we’ve got to go to. And it was, it’s one of those moments in your life. You never really want to have to, you don’t ever want to have more than once, even once a day. And it’s where someone says. I don’t know where you’re going to be tomorrow and I don’t know where you’re going to be next week.
And I definitely don’t know where you’re going to be next month. So working through with us at the moment, things are obviously moving quite quickly to sort this out a handful of weeks later on the 26th of June in 2019, which is actually my birthday. I had to go in for brain tumor surgery.
Obviously, as I’m sitting here at the moment, surgery went right or something decent, we know that they would devote some setting yet. But that was just the start of that journey and the problems, the real problems, not just even that, that came in afterwards because as part of the surgery, when they removed it, the spacious came to say that it was a lot bigger than we expected.
And he really told me it was the size of a golf ball. And he said afterwards, it was larger there to remove my pituitary glands, which controls my hormones, how my body reacts and a few other things. There was a lot to cover in the next few months that would change my life forever and so forth. And so going through this after surgery, a couple of months in a couple of months afterwards, I’m sitting down. I’m recovering and everything, and I’m going to hold on to a cat. I’m self-employed.
I had all that, three months ago there was that success in the, they inverted commerce. I’ve made it and I’m self-employed so I’m not working. Some money’s going out and money’s not coming in. And it’s three months later and it’s four months later. But, and in the back of my head and don’t worry, oh yeah, people going, Hey, what about insurance?
I was like, yep, I’ve got insurance to cover my income. I’ve paid for the last 10 years and got everything in place there. So I call up my insurance company and I go, Hey, it’s Lawrence, this is my surgery. This is what I had done. This is my insurance. And they go, yep. We’ve got insurance and would have a check.
We’ll come back to you. And then I’m like, oh, cool. Call them back would have been a few days or a week later. And they’re like, yeah, you’ve got cover. I’m like, okay. And they go, yeah, but it doesn’t cover your surgery. And I’m like, what are you talking about? And I’m like, yeah you, your pay out and your income protection and everything else, it’s not going to pay out for what you have.
And I’m like, what are you talking about? I can see on my insurance contract, it stipulates right yet for, brain tumor and something I’ve got, I’ve actually got the email and I use it when I do public speeches. I can show the two actual conditions that the insurance company actually screwed me over about.
And in New Zealand, we’re very forward with our medical practice and so forth, and most brain tumors a handful of years ago. And that stuff that would go through the skull as most people realize it. So beauty is people were scars on the scowl net and no go through that in New Zealand, they do it. The total recall where a lot of times they go out through the night.
So they can go up through the nose, into the, I won’t go too much into it, but yeah, they go up through the nose, into the surgery. My condition said that if I didn’t, if I went through the skull to pay out any other way, they wouldn’t pay out because of it. Because I was medically, we advanced in the country, the condition caught me out.
And in the second condition that they told me as well was, they said, Lauren’s, there’s no long term fix with your condition. You are healthy and stable and everything else. So we shouldn’t need to pay you out. I went back off to get a, from a specialist since it’s sorry. I’ve had brain surgery. I’ve removed my pituitary gland and I’ve got no control of more hormones these days. I can’t get out of bed. There’s days that literally are Monarch-like in a roid rage, because up and down I could be bipolar and some days if I get into an accident, I need to get injections or certain hormones immediately, or my body will shut down and I’ve got to take medication for the rest of my life.
And you’re trying to tell me I’m stable and healthy, right? Fighting for this for a couple of months. If they’ve just turned around as insurance companies, unfortunately doing, they said, sorry, this is our online case closed. You can’t fight it. You can challenge it. And this was going into December of 29th.
You can feel it six months later, no income protection. And it got to the stage at all this success and investments and everything. The year before I’d filed, I had to sell my gold and silver, my shares, my ETF’s, all that stuff I had to go to, I had to start selling it because I had these shares that were bringing me cash.
They would do me in cash flow, but not enough to cover my expenses and everything else. And that the surgery I had put on myself and my family. And there was that sort of realization going into January 2020 when I bounced on a mortgage, I got to the stage that I couldn’t pay my mortgage that month.
And I had no understanding how in a month’s time I was going to pay the rest of my boats and be impartial to this moment of financial ruin that I’d find myself in because of myself changing my conditions, myself, my wife, or so couldn’t see eye to eye. So in February 2020, we had to come out publicly to our friends and our close circle and say, we are not sure if we’re going to stay married after 15 years, because the person she married is no longer the same person I’d become, I’m becoming a different person.
And we can’t see eye to eye. There’s all the stress of the financial ruin. There’s the stress of the relationships and for the second time in a 12 month period, I find myself in the darkest moment of going, I don’t know if I’m going to have a marriage. I don’t know if I want to be able to pay for my bills and electricity.
I don’t know what’s going to happen with my family, my kids being able to go to school after all the stuff of working so hard. Since I came over from South Korea to New Zealand, all of that could just be for nothing. And it was, and I say to people, it was at that sort of darkest, darkest moment of my life in the pitch dark and hitting the bottom because I was willing.
To pay attention to look, I could see a glimmer of a race, small gloom over light, that there was something done. The end of that sort of dark way that if I followed it, I could slowly start making steps into a check. And that’s when I started, I had to go through a real learning of education of my wealth and wealth creation and everything else around that of firstly stepping back off guard, I’ve been zeroed from the top of the ladder to the bottom, coming down to nothing I’m slowly going back to work so I’m getting my salary in, but how do I, now that I’ve cleared everything I’ve owned and stow in very drastic debt. How do I slowly build that back up? Over sort of six or 12 months into 2020. And that’s the part that I just slowly go through and take through to start growing it up and up.
Jack: You said January 2020, like there wasn’t that long ago. So we’re recording in August to September 2021 number of 2021. So that’s a, what? 20 months? Eight months. Yeah nine plus 12 to 21. That’s not long. So what did you do to make this big turnaround so quick? It’s, they seem like you’re doing great. I would have never known that you just, that you were in that dark of a moment, not that long ago.
Lawrence: Yeah. So I was a bit of luck, a bit of desperation. So through that moment, I’d find myself, and this is one of the things out there to anyone that’s listening to watching at the moment is, I was prepared to ask for help, again, hand up society.
It’s very hard it’s Thomas to actually ask how we need to always prepare to ask for help in that situation to find guide from people that would know what to do at that point. So I had an understanding of how to invest and what companies to buy. But at that stage, I had no money to do it. The money I had was going out the door to cover everything else.
So I had to go and find the right specialists that could come in and have a look at my existing way, my expenses regarding everything else. And say to me, Lawrence, yes, subtle changes. That’s going to change $50 a week or a hundred dollars a week. And if you can do this for four weeks, we can make up that four or $500 for that payment you’ve got to do at the end of the month.
And I go out and find a couple of companies and a couple of organizations in the beginning to re-educate me about, Hey, our fallen all the way down. How do I think when I’m at the bottom of the ladder, or how do I think as a first time young family that can just make enough to pay the bills? How do I think about paying the bows and somehow trying to get ahead to put $5 in savings or $50 in savings.
And that was what we had to do in February and March, as we slowly went through. And some of that realization and that education. Just giving us some of the simple ones is giving away. Some of the normalities in life that are actually luxury are on from a financial point of view.
Again, it’s that whole combined coffee while you’re out doing the takeaways and lazy things. Not making the food at home, going out and doing the sort of adventures. So we had to bite the bullet and go, where are we going to cut back on everything as much as we could for two to three months but do other adventures, right?
So we don’t go out with the theme. Parks doesn’t mean I contact my kids to the park and we can go play on the gems and we can go and do a run and go play in a sport next done at a sports field just means we’re not paying for going to the theme parks or paying to go to the movies. Why don’t we set up at home and make a home cinnamon, put an old DVD and give them that experience.
Funny enough, kids love adventure, but actually just love the adventure when they can do it with their parents. And you realize that quite quickly, that my kids would love to sit in our lounge with TPS made and watch a movie and us lie on the floor and have a bowl of popcorn, just as much as me paying money to go see it in the cinemas.
Lawrence: So there were a lot of those sorts of subtle changes coming in which within each one of those changes pulled back a boat of $5 a year, $10 a year and so forth. So we could start getting this ball rolling of getting ahead on the numbers and so forth. What I was lucky with as well is when we came into February 2020, like I said, I had sold everything at our own store.
I owned my family home and I still had one other investment property that I had as well. It was the loss in white knuckles holding on. We were able to go. Cause one of the advisors I brought in was a top end mortgage broker property, investment mortgage broker, and he was able to come in and review the whole way.
My accounts were set up with the bank. The way my payments were set up again in New Zealand, this broker and advisor costs me no money. He gets paid by the bank from anything, any new business he brings in the bank pays him. So it costs me nothing to bring him on, guide me to change my accounts and so forth.
So it was free advice and changing. So we were suddenly able to make some changes in my, the way my mortgage structures were set up, how to break things up, how to push some of the mortgages longer art in payments while we’re struggling and have they met 15 or 20 has pushed them back to 30 years.
And again the payments were subtly less so that at the end of the month, the numbers were higher. So once we got through this Jack of a couple of months, The numbers started adding up. I could pay the bows. I could cover the mortgage. And there was a lift of a little bit of funding and this is where the thought pattern is.
Okay. How am I going to start now again and start investing? Where am I going to invest and how am I going to invest with only $50 a week or, $200 a week or whatever it is, depending on the situation, how my mindset had to change from a year or two years earlier, we, I could go, okay, I’ve got five grand spare I’m just going to go throw five grand on ETF. So I’m going to throw five grand on chairs. I have to look at, over a month period, I’ve got to look at how am I going to change it on a month to month basis? It’s a rethink about my strategies. And one of the big things I was looking into was, again, obviously that knowledge. When you invest, you obviously want to invest widely so that you can, your risk return, average out. So if you’ve got again a 30 or 40 or 50% if those biomarkers are protected by Lopez.
Jack: Sure. So give me a, can you give me a couple examples? Okay, you got your, the different buckets that you’re talking about.
Lawrence: So let’s talk about different buckets. Extreme on the side is high volatile shares. That’s out there that is high volatile shades of companies that haven’t been proven and stuff. So they’ve seen massive growth, but the chance of tanking is quite high as well. So they could be doing 60 to 80, to a hundred percent growth, but they’re usually quite fresh.
To anything else as well in the market at the moment, digital currency, such in far high volatile market, you’ve got to believe that. Yeah. So your digital currency, anything that’s underpinned in digital currency, not blockchain, not anything it’s not held on blockchain, but digital currency sits on that spectrum sort of that 30 to a hundred percent returns over, three to 12 months sits on that far extreme on that side.
And then when you come back, You will start getting into sort of more stable 30, 20 teens percentages. And there could be company shares. There could be ETFs, there could be reached that you guys have in America, the investments across property. You actually are, obviously you have your property investments yourself that sit in that space.
And then as well as you come in lower down, you might have your term deposits depending on what your cash rates are doing in New Zealand, our terminal Politan term deposit pauses are now not worth anything. They’re like 0.25%, but some stages normally that could be 4% or 5% depending on what the economy is doing. And you come down to cold and Silverado at the end.
Jack: There you go. So yeah, I have gold and silver, precious metals. I had a guy that actually is a broker on the show a few episodes ago. My kind of 3 to 5% bucket would be high cash value whole life. So that’s what we recommend to the audience. So it’s like that very conservative bucket that you’re talking about. It’s almost impossible for you to lose and then moving on up there’s real estate that you’re going to do that could be 7, 8, 10, even 20%. Talk to get 30% on real estate, but today’s market has lasted a couple of years.
Lawrence: And as Jack you should come to New Zealand.
Jack: I was like, okay how long is that party going? Go, that’s the question that I keep asking, like how long has this party going to gonna last and then yeah, digital currency, cryptocurrencies that I can, you can get a hundred, 300%, a thousand percent on those, but they can go down just as fast and they do. So you had to, so what you’re saying is that when you were rebuilding your main, your first mode of operandi was I gotta reduce everything that is a lifestyle expense. Get rid of the restaurants we got to, like you said, we’re going to, we’re going to watch movies at home. We’re just going to go pretty bare bones, or we’re going to just save as much money possibly.
So we have our seed money to then start reinvesting and building ourselves back up. And then with that seed money you’re spreading it out again with the different buckets of that. You’ve always got your safety. You’re safe and secure investments. And then you got your ones that, you have a shot at really moving the needle on your net worth.
Lawrence: Correct. And one of the biggest things that I had to think through was, like I said before, I could go and buy sizable chunks, which I could spend $2,000 a month on shares, like I said, and for me that was sizable chunks. Some people it’s a lot of money. Some people it’s a little bit, it’s just the valley to yourself.
I didn’t have to think too strong about the brokerage and the extra $50. If I buy through this platform, when I had to restart this part of the big education was how can I get my hands on this investment line, cross this line by ensuring that I pay the least amount of money to get my item in there.
Now for example you can go do, you can go to big brokerage companies and buy shares, and you’re going to pay them the premium for them to buy the shares on you’ll be off and hosted and so forth. But you also get a lot of apps out there from us talking about shares. For example, you get in New Zealand, we’ve got something called cheesies are now in the UK.
Mr. Wonderful has got something called beanstalks and now in America, there’s a whole lot of apps around them. Unfortunately, I don’t know them by name, but they like once every, maybe every shade. It’s like one since brokerage.
Jack: Okay. I like fidelity because it is completely free trading. Like you can.
Lawrence: Yeah. But yeah, so we’ve got the New Zealand stock exchange.
We’ve obviously got the Australian stock exchange and the main places I would buy through was through them. And their brokerage costs originally a handful of years ago was $30 a buy and they’ve reduced it now to $15 a buy. But if I’m only spending $50. I can pay $15 for a buyer. I’m never going to make a return on it.
I’m losing money. So I had to then find the places like I said, so there’s one app in New Zealand market and charges like I said, at the scene to share. So if I’m spending $50 and I’m buying 15 or 20 shares, I’m only spending 20 cents on top of that to actually buy it. So my operational cost to get into investment is a lot lower than it was beforehand.
Also had to look at sort of other companies like I’ll I love doing ETFs. And if you sign up to companies that do ETS. And if you do regular as much regular payments, even if it’s a small amount, like $20 a month to invest a lot of them, their admin fees or their fees are a lot lower than if I’m just buying one office again.
So what I did in two days, I bought into an ETF. I buy them through New Zealand. I hedge my ETF on the American stock market. And at that by doing a minimum I started at $50 a month. Obviously, that’s increased now. I was paying cents on every time that it was buying for me shares every single month.
So again, I was able to get into at a very small amount of investment, but making sure my operational costs getting there was reduced. I know in America, I know there is a lot more competition. So to them, it’s not as drastic as the price point, but it is a thought to look around as to, to shop how to get your product and to look at the least expensive way to actually get that product.
And that’s what I had to do around that as well. Another thing is, gold and silver rights in Sova is again, cheap and stuff. People buy gold and silver and they leave it with the brokerage company that sells it and they have to pay the brokerage company that houses the golden silver, and saves it for them, a fee to do that as well.
That’s how it works in the New Zealand market. So obviously for me I had a safe pro card protected in quite a safe country in the world. Any of my gold and silver I bought in us and I put it in a place that wasn’t costing me money for someone else to protect it or protect myself.
It doesn’t mean when it gets to a certain point. I’m happy to leave that amount of Walton around my property, or, but in the beginning I could reduce, again, those sort of costs items as well. And then we started to engineer these new technologies that’s coming along. Obviously, the digital current is coming to a place that you can buy again, this is so volatile, but you can buy a thousand shares.
A thousand tokens of some are, have some token for 20 cents, so yes, I went in and I would spend like 20 or $30 and buy all these idiotic coins because if any, one of them paid off, all of a sudden, my $20 would be $200 or $2,000 on the, on, on the lowest stock ones. And then suddenly our set came really big into it, which I’ve gotten into sort of this year really is property that is not sold across blockchain.
Jack: Yeah, this is fascinating. I heard this on your show and I think, I’m so huge on real estate. Like I believe that. My whole philosophy is first invest into yourself and that’s the biggest investment you’re ever going to get is just becoming smarter, more skilled. And then the second part builds a cash flow business.
And then the third thing is to invest in the cash flow producing assets, which is, almost all of that primarily is in real estate or some form of real estate. The problem that is traditional with real estate is it’s a pretty high cost of entry for a new investor, right? Even to buy a small single family in Indianapolis, right now you’re not going to get much quality under a hundred grand.
So the investor, the newbie, is going to have to spend. Twenty-five percent usually, 20, 25% down. So there’s 20, 25 grand plus. Now they have debt, a debt payment, they got a service. It’s a little riskier. So yeah, I really like this idea of what you’re about to share, just trying to preface my audience.
So they understand that this is going to give them the benefits of real estate, but more liquidity. when you buy that a hundred thousand dollars property, it’s not liquid. You can’t go and access that money the next day or the next week, or it could be months before you’re able to get that money back out of it, if you should need it.
And as you know Lawrence, the problem too, when you buy real estate, if you sell it quickly, the selling costs eat up. You usually can’t when you will lose money because your selling costs are going to be so high to paint out commissions and title companies and inspections and all of that.
Your property doesn’t go up that fast and value to be offset. So anyways, I just wanted to set the set there and make sure that everybody’s clear how it is really good. This is what you’re about to drop.
Lawrence: Yeah. Thanks Jack. Also already through island numbers in New Zealand. So you can understand why myself and a lot of my friends that are investors have really gotten into or are looking into this game. The average house price in New Zealand across the country, $700,000 at home.
So it’s 700,000 New Zealand. So you’re talking about, I think maybe about four 50, 500,000 us. That’s the average price across the whole country. That’s a crazy average. The average house price in an open city, I think, is just about a tip of a million New Zealand dollars. You’re talking about 700, 700,000 us dollars is the average house price in the study.
I’m Lebanese. So if you can imagine and we are required by the banks, 20% cash deposit. So you need 140,000. Dollars us to buy a house, the average house in the city that I live in at the moment. So just think about that as a 18 year old, 20 year old, 25 year old, young couple, and you can understand the challenges we have in the New Zealand micron property.
That’s another discussion we can get on that another day. But so obviously people that are in the game or in the game, but other people are obviously looking at opportunities. How do I get my hands on? And historically property, you buy a whole section or whole house, or you have a couple of mates going together.
And again you have large chunks of property that costs large amounts of money, 50,000, a hundred thousand dollars or whatever it is to get into it. But now we’ve obviously got this new technology or this new platform called blockchain or the underpinning technology of blockchain.
So the company I’m talking about at the moment, and there could be a few other companies that aren’t there, but the company I’m talking about at the moment is called Realty launch out of America. I’m a client of this area, I think it’s 12 properties in the last check through them. And what they do is Realty the owners, the company goes and buys a property a cash cashflow property Chicago, Detroit, and so forth.
Yes, people are gonna go, Hey, hold on. Those studies are sometimes a bit on the Dan and everything else. They do. They do the numbers or the due diligence everything’s there on the platform, but how it works is they go and buy a property. They put this property into a company. So we’re going to call it. We’re going to call into this company. This company itself is the improvements of the blockchain and shares are then allocated or tokens are allocated. Now, for example, the majority of the properties we buy in Detroit, I think, is about $50,000 or whatever it is or across your cargo. So it’s a $50,000 company.
It’s one company per property. The tokens are only 50 us dollars a token. And therefore, there’s only a thousand tokens available in this company. So to anyone that’s listening, it sounds exactly like buying a share in a company like Facebook or apple net. It is you buying a share in this company that owns the property, but the company’s owned on the blockchain.
So it’s de-centralized finance. So there’s no brokers. There’s no real estate agents. There’s no lawyers. There’s nothing else. So what it is I go on a website, I’ll go into realty.co. And they pass a hundred properties. I think it is about when I had Marcia maybe six or eight weeks ago. And they released maybe two to three properties a week. So you go on name, they’ll show you here’s the latest property. Yeah. It’s going to be for sale in about two days, years, all the numbers, it’s a multiunit this, the doors and the rain does the operational costs has all the information years, the return on it and use the token price.
The token normally sets around 50, $55. Majority of the return on this is anywhere around 10 to 12%. On the rent now. Yes. Yes. It’s a property investment. Yes. They might not be tenants for a period of time. It has all the same risks as any other property investment has. So don’t think about mitigating any of that, but where the difference comes into it is myself or anyone else that would love to own a portion of property can do it at 50 us dollars a token.
So this month I might have a few dollars spin, I go in and buy their token. And because it’s on the blockchain, that is almost instantly. So I go on the platform. I say, when it goes for sale, are these properties solid within 24 hours? Because it’s worldwide. Blockchain is anyway, right? So people buy everywhere in the world, they want to own, everyone wants to own real estate in the U S and this is how they are doing it.
So I go in, I select one, one token, I’ll say by, within about five minutes, the contract arrives in my email or it’s a full-sized contract. I’ve been through it a few times. I’ve been, I’ve done this a few times. I’m good at going through. I sign the contract, it gets sent back. There’s an acknowledgement. And within a couple hours, I get my tokens issued.
And my title of those tokens in the company is emailed to me. So within a handful of hours, I now own two tokens or three tokens or one token, depending on what you bought in their company that owns their property. So I’ve got ownership of their property. Now the, sorry Jack, the best thing above is obviously you own a token and there’s rent that comes in.
So there’s two ways you can do with the rent that is issued to you. So if you, if it’s 11%, if it’s live in percent return, You get, you have a $50 token gives you about $5 in change a year. So you’re making 45 cents a month. So you make it about 10, 12 cents a week. Not a lot of money. It’s not a lot of money, but again, it is an 11% return.
So don’t get wrong. Don’t look at them, they are making 10 cents a week. Look at the percentage of the return. But now how this works, which is really cool. There’s two options. When your rent gets paid in, you can either get the rent paid out directly to you in digital currency, across Ethereum, or you can get the rent reinvested automatically in another property.
So you’ll live and since it gets paid out to me and I do it, I do the reinvestments. I reinvested on a weekly basis into another property. It goes over year, that is earning 11% on my 11% that I’ve just been paid. And anyone that knows how to invest in, if I’m getting weekly compounding, it’s going into some of the assets.
It’s just a luxury wind. We, in that, it just keeps going on going now.
Jack: Yeah. Compounding interest is the eighth wonder of the world, right?
Lawrence: Pretty much.
Jack: So hold on one quick, one quick question to make sure I understood that you get paid out in what coin you get paid out in what currency?
Lawrence: So you can take the payments across Ethereum. Yeah, so I haven’t received any across it cause I don’t have that option selected because obviously a goes across, I just reinvest my token.
Jack: So you get paid in the Ethereum token or across the Ethereum blockchain. Because of the Ethereum token I love it.
That’s my favorite. I tell all my guys to get Ethereum, buy Ethereum.
Lawrence: But yeah, I Jack, I got it. I’ve got to double check on that one. I apologize now and because I haven’t selected, I haven’t followed through on them. But on, I think it’s across the Ethereum take the technology, not necessarily on the token.
Jack: Is it paid out in their native token, in their, whatever their token is that you purchased, you get more of that token?
Lawrence: Yeah. So when you purchase, you just have the, you just have more of that token ownership of that token. So when I go into the dashboard, it shows my own and one thing that’s really smart about this, they will have all the properties on one side that you can only buy upfront and they have all the properties on the other side that you can only reinvest.
So what happens is if I buy and when I buy, I normally buy they’ll normally list like two or three properties at once. I’ll go buy a token, at least in each property or more depending on how much my budget allows. So if I buy one token in these three properties, A week or two weeks later, Marie investment goes into the property.
It’s on this side of the table, right on this side of the table. It’s and now I’ve got a fourth property that I’m invested in and everyone reinvest in this property. So within about a month, this property is not folded up. So then they add another one. So within six months or 12 months, you’ve literally got a small portion ownership in like 20 or 30 or 40 different properties just by automatically how the system works.
So your pockets, your bucket of ownership, isn’t all sitting with one house in one town that if something happens in that suburb, you staffed at it, literally spread across. So you still have the same value in getting a new tenant and will even send a return. That’s compounding, but it’s spread across 10, 15, 20 different properties.
So every time I’d go back and look, I’ve got, oh, cool. I’m in another, $5 and this house now in another $5 net house. Cause it just keeps waiting along and you, or more or less, depending on what your value is.
Jack: So another way too, that you can benefit from this. If I understand it correctly, every year the house gets reappraised. So then let’s say you, first appraised the value. So for the listeners, appraisal is like somebody comes in as an independent auditor almost per se, they comment and say, okay, based on the comps and the condition of this house, it’s worth 50,000. So then they do that appraisal every year, if I’m not mistaken.
And that’s, let’s say the property goes up to, I don’t want to say a hundred, but for easy math, let’s go to a hundred, but it’s not realistic in most cases. But so then now the value of your token, the $50 that you put in is now worth a hundred. Correct?
Lawrence: Yeah. So totally correct. So there’s two ways there’s value in the token. So obviously you’ve got value putting the money in and it gets spent on the range of re-investing and then you’ve obviously got the original token and those absolutely correct Jack, they review how RealT does it when they sell the property. It has its value today and every 12 months off to that problem.
And they go and re-evaluate the property. They do a new appraisal. Now, obviously the appraisal can go up as well as it can go down. So you’ll $50 after 12 months could be 55, but it also could be 45. So again that’s what investing is. But then also there’s something else that can be done as well. Because people are great. My I’ve got our own, the token. What if I need to cash out? What the, what happens if I need to get my money out, there’s two ways you can do it on this platform. You can either sell it straight back to the platform to Realty at the price you paid. So if I paid $50 a token, I can sell it straight back to them and $50. It does take a couple of weeks to go through that system. Or there are so many people that buy, they do have a platform where you can sell it individually, privately to each other. So I can go, Hey. I need to cash out of my tokens. I’ve got $500 of tokens. No 10 tokens are the property.
Is everything our 1, 5 24 it’s at least make some money and mean me and Jack, talk through and negotiate and it is transferred across a block chain of ownership again for those tokens. And that can be done in five minutes or in five days, depending on fussy myself and Jack hours on the negotiation. So you can cash out in two different ways on those tokens.
Jack: That’s incredible liquidity for real estate. Isn’t it?
Lawrence: It really is. It is. It’s such a cool way. And that’s where a lot of my friends that are in the property game, in New Zealand and across Australia as well, love this because they can throw it. And that can put it out when they need to. The only big thing that was sign is it’ll be interesting to see year one, year two, what does tokens and how those values go? Because a big thing, a lot of people have asked me about, Realty. And again, I’m just an investor, myself, God, no CapEx from them. This is what I can see. Over a hundred properties have gone through this process. They’re quite stabilized. This is still realistically like day one, two and three of Bitcoin, so a lot of people are looking into this. They don’t feel that confident, but that’s where a lot of my friends where we now go and why don’t we get into it? A majority of my friends over the next 12 months are trying to build up from a low point of view. They’re like, I want to get five grand into it. And to see what the next 12 months does. And the so five grand, again, could be a lot or a little, depending on the situation, but they’re like, I want to put a small nest egg for them in this space and then see what that does and in their stock as with any other investment, if it does well, that would double it and triple it over sort of another six months or 12 months, we’ll throw more money in there because that technology is currently being discussed in New Zealand.
A few friends of mine. I have large companies here and they are all talking about waiting for it to be launched in New Zealand. And they wanted to get launched because we have one of the hottest property markets in the world. And we have had, for 10 years, that it’s just the prices just keep going through the roof.
So they’re like if we can launch that here, You’re not going to be getting an 11% return. You’re going to be getting what your token growth is going to be way higher. Our property’s done, oh, I don’t want to mistake it, but the last 12 months or coming on now slow down and we’re down to 25% growth.
So we are slowing down at 25% growth and we expect in the next 12 months, because the government’s bought in a whole lot of new legislation just slowed down. We expect it to slow down to a whole Ted about 13%.
Jack: That’s still very strong. Isn’t it?
Jack: historically what’s done there in New Zealand? It’s usually 3% somewhere in that range of value growth with property. What does it do there?
Lawrence: We stabilized around six to eight, six to 8% growth. Yeah. Okay. So that seven year, that sort of seven year double, not, sorry, not seven, seven to 10 year w of value in New Zealand is what you’d get.
So if you hold a property for every seven to 10 years at a double in value, so yeah, we stabilized six to eight comes up. I can come up to that 10 to 12%. Obviously the GFC had a subtle effect, but when we are in a such a different way, Jack, we are a country of only 5 million. So you’ve got to remember our size is smaller than a lot of American cities or cities.
So that’s why our model doesn’t necessarily fit into the rest of the world. We, one of the smallest countries out there. So that’s why numbers can just be so drastic out there.
Jack: Okay. I gotta ask. I love Lord of the Rings. Okay. So I know that those movies were all shot there. Did he ever have a chance to be an extra or watch them filming?
Lawrence: So that was before my time of moving over into New Zealand. But a lot of my friends and people are not all extras on Lord of the rings. Obviously Lord of the rings, hobbits the Hubbard, all of it was formed in New Zealand. A lot of Milan, The Meg. All of that is formed by Archer.
Peter Jackson obviously has a big, is obviously QE. And what the government does now is they do massive texts, kickback, stadiums, production companies. So we see a lot of the American stalls come over and they do the foreman year and as one of the big things in New Zealand is as much as we love celebrities, don’t get me wrong.
We, in a culture that doesn’t go chaos over celebrities. So for example, our prime minister, I like your president. If it was just a note and she was walking down the street, people would just go, Hey, how are you doing? She would have one police officer, maybe walking with her. She wouldn’t have any special forces.
She still lives in the same house. She grew up before she got elected in the normal suburbia. So in the residential area, our lives. So in our own house, the same neighbors, the TV celebrities that we have. Yeah. So what happens is when a lot of that’s why you see a lot of Hollywood stars is when they come over to New Zealand, they just love it because they go, Hey, I can walk down to the local cafe and people go, Hey, that’s you?
And go home. But they won’t get swarmed or storm. They won’t be cameramen outside trying to fold them and stuff. They can actually, I live a normal life.
Jack: Live a normal life.
Lawrence: So we see a lot of, we said a lot of people coming over and in wanting to stay here
Jack: is the country as beautiful as it is portrayed in Lord of the rings and those movies. It looks amazing.
Lawrence: Yes. The south island is exactly what a chosen Lord of the rings and more places. It’s funny. I was talking to a friend a while ago. We went to what sort of are our top ski places and a holiday place called Queenstown. We fly in through the mountains. So the mountains go like this and your flight is in the middle.
And is it a snow captain? And it’s absolutely gorgeous with the likes, everything else. And she was talking about this, some areas that you go just an hour or so out of there, and it feels like you’re back in the dressing period, just with the world rocks coming off for the water. And there’s no one right around and things and it’s yeah, it’s definitely just as beautiful.
But coming from South Africa, which is a very beautiful country. And uniqueness. Sometimes I have a sort of dilemma of which country is more beautiful than the other one, because obviously in South Africa, you’ve got a different uniqueness. You’ve got all that wildlife and nature and everything else, in New Zealand there’s nothing in New Zealand, there’s no animals that can kill you.
We don’t have spiders, we don’t have snakes. We don’t have any venomous animals or a big DIA or anything like that. That can actually go and harm you out of you.
Jack: So it’s quite safe in the wilderness. That’s great. Say from the people safe from the animals that’s a good place to be. So Lawrence’s last question, what was your, what’s your kind of biggest learning lesson from your incredible ordeal?
Do you, are you at that stage where. You’re like I learned a lot, like I’m at a stage of gratitude for what happened, because it helped change me into becoming a better person or are we not there yet? It wasn’t that long ago. So sometimes it takes, it can take multi-year periods for that to really develop
Lawrence: Yeah, look, I was humbled very quickly. The chip fell off the shoulder quite quickly and the ego, so that’s changed. So my brand and my direction, and my focus fundamentally has pivoted as well due to that. So my brand is more now my podcast is more now about educating people around scenarios. So a very big thing about educating people in the property game and the business game and giving them that a lot of free education out there that then they’re not getting from the sort of companies that should supply that.
So that’s why I’m helping as much as possible. So yeah, so the ad was humbled. I accepted my beating and I took it and it’s and I don’t want anyone else to go. Yeah. Fundamentally the biggest things. You don’t want anyone else to fall off and not know how to get back. You don’t want anyone else to go through those issues and not be prepared or everything.
I had some cash flow, but it was a long-term strategy. The properties originally were like, Hey, that’ll pay me out. When I retire or there’s shares that have got capital growth, but it’s going to do well in two to three years’ time, when you have a realization, you don’t know what’s gonna happen tomorrow.
That mindset changes that I’ve always got to look after myself and my family today and tomorrow. Yes. I can look at them and think about them in five or 10 or 15 years’ time. But my overarching strategies got to always make sure that I’m protecting myself with a higher cash flow, easier way to get hold of money and wealth so I can protect myself.
And then and then just sharing as much of that knowledge as possible to anyone that’s willing to listen.
Jack: I think, my personal theory is in having gotten through not to the level of that you did, but I certainly had a humbling experience. I think the male ego is so built and so wired to chase success and to chase, we want to be recognized, we want people to say great things about us. We want to feel like we’re at the elite, we’re competitive. And so when we’re constantly chasing that over and over again, I don’t think any male will escape the beating the humbling experience. It’s going to take shape in different forms. But going through that humbling process, I think it is really a great thing because then it allows you to really, in a way relax and just live your real purpose and be focused on happiness instead of success.
So are you, do you feel like you’re happier? You’re focused more on Hey, I just want to be living a joyful life now, versus I gotta make, I gotta get mine. I got to make money. I got to prove myself.
Lawrence: There’s none of that. I’ve got to prove myself again. I’m happy. My wife, that’s funny. A friend of mine had a question to each other a couple of weeks ago or actually a month ago. And it was, what is that one thing you should do that you own, or once that will show that tick box said, Hey I’ve achieved life. I’m successful. And it was quite an interesting question. I come home and asked my wife and I said, Hey, what do you, think’s the one thing that I will own or have, and therefore, being tick that’s a sign of success and she says, you’ll never have that because you’ve got the bug of entrepreneurship and the bug of always wanting to chase.
You always want to choose something and go more. But to me, not this different way, it was a couple of years ago, a couple years ago, it was, Hey chase, chase had million dollar chase at $10 million chase that people know you on social media. And when people walk on the street, do you expect them to know where you are now?
The chase is, Hey, chase and help another company out that they need to help guide and help a lot more other things out. So it’s more chasing that other people can have those opportunities, not necessarily that I can be in the front liner. And that’s more than just sit in the back. I always see myself in anyone that seems like the original cartoon Aladdin with Robin Williams.
At some stage, the genie sitting there with the pom-poms and going, you can do it. That’s where I am at the moment, at the background of everyone and that realization of cheering that on because. Not just because that’s what I wanted, but you’d be surprised what happens when you put your stupid other people in front of yourself from an India in an integrity point of view, how that will come back over a period of time and support you back as well.
Jack: No, yeah. Yeah. Success comes from what you get, but fulfillment comes from what you give. So there’s nothing that beats fulfillment if you want to have both. We’re never going to stop chasing success. That’s how we’re wired as your wife pointed out, she’s a smart woman who knows us, that’s never going to stop, but being able to have that in check and in control, it sounds like you’ve made some incredible strides, all right. So what do you got going right now that people can follow you or learn from you? I know you have a YouTube course that I just registered yesterday for, I want to learn some of your YouTube hacks.
You got a great podcast or what do you get for people to plug into.
Lawrence: Oh, yeah. So just first if anyone’s interested. So obviously Lawrence Lotz can find me on all the social platforms out there at the moment. I’ll try to be on as many as possible and I’m way too active on most of them. So you can always get a hold of me.
So obviously got the Wolf country podcasts that run across YouTube that are running at the moment. And I do a podcast course. I teach people to launch port calls within eight weeks, help them get ranked, give them all the strategies that sit behind that as Jack said, I’ve just launched. I’m very excited about this.
I’ve just launched my black book of secrets, a YouTube course. And what this is I normally did private one-on-one YouTube mentorship with people, which is almost $700 and costs over two to three to four weeks for companies, individuals, and brands. And I’ve just put that into a live two and a half hour event for anyone that’s interested for only $19.
I would make it, I would love to make it free, but I’ve there’s a bit of a realization that if you make something free, people just don’t have value, not valued, right? So the 90, the $19, there’s just for that psychological effect to that, we pay a little bit of money. You’re going to pay, a bit of attention to attend, and I’m excited to have Jack on board and it takes people through what YouTube really is. How does it actually work and higher? This is one of the things that people find the craziest is how you can post a video on YouTube with FCD gnosis subscribers and still get views. And people don’t realize that because YouTube itself has its own brain and AI that will take your content on your behalf and put it in front of someone else.
Sure. Without you doing anything and everything and all of those things where we’re covering the course and show you how to be done. And once you learn it, you’d just go, wow. There’s no. Yeah. There’s no way of not knowing now how to make it happen. Yes, it’s a big thing that’s happening in October and I’m super pumped for that.
So if anyone that’s watching or listening is interested to learn more about that, just a message Jack or message myself. And I was taking you through the link and I would love to have you join us there.
Jack: Yeah we’ll post your, all your stuff in the show notes, all your ways to get ahold of you and your linked to your podcast.
For those that, we covered it pretty quick. It is, there’s a, there’s more in depth to the blockchain property deal. You interviewed the owner of that particular, the founder of that particular platform on your podcast. Do you remember what that one was titled or episode or
Lawrence: So there would have been, I would have been Realty investments.
I’m on number 76. I think it’s around number 70. So if anyone does go it would have been within the last six episodes on my Protocols on YouTube or on any streaming service it, and it will say Realt in the decentralized finance in the name. And you’ll be able to tell it out from the other ones that it’s talking about this topic.
Jack: Okay, perfect. So if you guys want to hear a little bit more detail about that exactly. Be prepared for pretty, to listen to a pretty smart dude. Talk about that. So I’m just warning you, you won’t feel smart when you get done with that one, but you’ll feel more knowledgeable. All right.
Perfect. This was incredible. So thank you so much for sharing your ex your wisdom, your experience, your deal, your authenticity you are doing great things, man. I’m excited to have the relationship and to be able to have you on. So thanks for being here.
Lawrence: Thanks so much, Jack.
Jack: All right, here we go. You guys will see in the next episode.
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